Should I be using water or air cooling on my mini itx build?

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Hey guys. I'm new here and I came looking for some advice. If you could help that'd be amazing.

So I built my first computer build in January. It was a big undertaking for me, and it came after a period where I was going through a rough time so it meant a lot for me that i could do something right. Anyways, my main issue/consideration was that I needed it to be as small as possible; right now I'm living in a dorm so I can use all the space I could get. Hence mini itx.

To summarize my initial build:

Corsair 250d case (bought used)
Thermaltake Water Extreme 3.0 240mm water cooler (bought used, might be a problem)
2 ssds and 1 laptop hdd (used)
intel core i5 6600k
seasonic 550w gold ATX PSU
Ceil 16gb ddr4 memory
NVidia GTX 1060 (6gb)
Windows 10

I changed the 250d case to a Fractal Design Core 500 recently (for more space... and aesthetics), and that's when I began to overclock and notice some glaring issues with my build.

First off, i think it's too loud. I'm only using the fans for my water cooling and the included system fan, and yet it still sounds with a loud hum on idle, and gets worse as my cores get hotter.

Second of all, I noticed that when i started overclocking my cpu (first time and now it's at 4.6ghz) my temperatures went out of control. While the cooler still can get as low as 25c, it requires a lot of effort, and when I enter heavy applications or stress test it it can stay at 80-100c for minutes on end before going down, even with the fans set to their highest. This really creeps me out because from what i heard before starting this build, water cooling isn't supposed to ever get this hot (Although the case's limited airflow is also probably an issue)

Finally, there's the issue of leakage. I don't know how old this water cooler is (I forgot to ask the seller), but I don't want to risk water leaking onto my components, especially since I wouldn't know how to clean it up/claim it for a warranty.

So because of the above things I need to replace my water cooler soon (next few months). My main question is this though; should i be looking at a air cooler instead?

I want to keep things cool, but I also want to be safe with my components, I want my build to be quieter and I want things to be long lasting. I don't really have the money for a custom-loop either. So... what do you all think? Sorry if this is a bit long.
 
You need to determine whether your noise is from the pump or the fans. ANd work it out from there.

You should test at stock your temps first. If they're above 70-75 at full load at stock, you probably have a problem. I personally had this debate for my Ncase M1. I went to water for a bit but the pump noise is noticeable to me so I went back to air.

The 250D/Core 500 are pretty well setup for water cooling. If it works then don't change it, but depends on the problem/where the noise is. Also make sure your pump is running 100% from the header, and not being controlled by the bios. The cooler isn't that old, and should work fine.

Leaks are rare, but do happen. But it's a very very small chance.

Take a few pics maybe of your setup to give us an idea of your airflow/setup, etc.
 
ReaperX22 said:
You need to determine whether your noise is from the pump or the fans. ANd work it out from there.

You should test at stock your temps first. If they're above 70-75 at full load at stock, you probably have a problem. I personally had this debate for my Ncase M1. I went to water for a bit but the pump noise is noticeable to me so I went back to air.

The 250D/Core 500 are pretty well setup for water cooling. If it works then don't change it, but depends on the problem/where the noise is. Also make sure your pump is running 100% from the header, and not being controlled by the bios. The cooler isn't that old, and should work fine.

Leaks are rare, but do happen. But it's a very very small chance.

Take a few pics maybe of your setup to give us an idea of your airflow/setup, etc.
Click to expand...

To be honest I think my airflow/cable management is really bad, because I don't really know how to properly do it? It's like a jungle in there. And no, at stock loads I only hit 70-75 if i was stress testing. And I don't know what you mean by "running from the header and not being controlled by your bios"? I have everything plugged into my motherboard, but when I tried to download thermaltake's application for the water cooler it said that it could not detect it.

Here are some pictures:

http://i.imgur.com/TDAhLax.jpg

http://imgur.com/pciCNDK

http://imgur.com/Rduuy0n

http://imgur.com/wNAi5NN (the pipes are a bit bent because they're so long that it's sort of hard to find space for them)

http://imgur.com/WMXBOXH

http://imgur.com/16RGYrz

http://imgur.com/EFZ7t63

I hope these pictures were helpful?
 
I can't imagine that mess of cables helps airflow.

The pump from the cooler typically has a 3pin connector to the motherboard. In the bios ensure that the header it's connected to is 'disabled' under the fan control section. This allows it to run at full speed all the time (as it should). Related apps usually require a USB connection from the cooler to an internal USB 2.0 connector. If it's not connected, it won't detect.

Stock temps seem a little high for a 240mm, but depends on your voltage.

Speaking of, what's your voltage at? Both at stock at 4.6ghz?

Are your fans pulling through the rad out the top? Or pushing into the case?
 
ReaperX22 said:
I can't imagine that mess of cables helps airflow.

The pump from the cooler typically has a 3pin connector to the motherboard. In the bios ensure that the header it's connected to is 'disabled' under the fan control section. This allows it to run at full speed all the time (as it should). Related apps usually require a USB connection from the cooler to an internal USB 2.0 connector. If it's not connected, it won't detect.

Stock temps seem a little high for a 240mm, but depends on your voltage.

Speaking of, what's your voltage at? Both at stock at 4.6ghz?

Are your fans pulling through the rad out the top? Or pushing into the case?
Click to expand...

Alright, so I should update you on some things first.

So after I sent those picture I realized that my cable management was really, really bad, so I did a bit of cleaning up. I also screwed in the cooler a bit tighter to my cpu, and then re routed a few things around. I still can't control the fans completely but I noticed that my temperatures have improved a LOT. I did a little stress test before I left home today (3d mark stress tested on the extreme mode) and passed the stability test and my temperatures never went above 70c. The fans weren't as obnoxiously loud as before either. When I get home I'll show you more pictures of me cleaning up my wires.

I'll answer/edit you more when I get back from class, but at my 4.6ghz OC i'm at a 1.350 manual Voltage (i'm new to OCing but I hear that that's the max you should go to). I haven't tried to reach above 4.6 yet. I don't remember my voltage exactly for my stock, but I think I was at 1.000, and I never had any cooling issues at stock.

Also my fans are still loud. As for where the radiator is, I have the fans below the radiator on the top of my case, and my radiator is facing *up*. My case fan at the back of my face is facing *out* . So my radiator I think is pushing air out and so is my fan at the back? I'll send pictures when I get home, and I'll disable the header in BIOS (although I'll need to find the option because i've never seen it). The header you're referring to is the connector to the pump as opposed to the fans, right?

Also what do you mean that I need a USB connection to the cooler? My cooler doesn't have any usb connectors, and my motherboard and case only have 3.0 headers...?
 
try speedfan for control. watch jayztwocent's video on setup if you need it. make sure you fan is set to auto in the bios. your mobo should be able to control the pump and fans.
yes 1.35v is the max you should use.
heres the deal with the rad and fan. if you have your rad as intake and fan as exhaust you will get better cpu temps but slightly higher mobo and gpu temps, maybe a couple degrees C. if you have your fan as intake and the rad as exhaust theny you will see slightly higher cpu temps as its pulling warmer air but your gpu and mobo should be slightly cooler as the rad pulls the hot air out of the case. BUT either way you look at it airflow is unbalanced. you want two in two out.
 
pendragon1 said:
try speedfan for control. watch jayztwocent's video on setup if you need it. make sure you fan is set to auto in the bios. your mobo should be able to control the pump and fans.
yes 1.35v is the max you should use.
heres the deal with the rad and fan. if you have your rad as intake and fan as exhaust you will get better cpu temps but slightly higher mobo and gpu temps, maybe a couple degrees C. if you have your fan as intake and the rad as exhaust theny you will see slightly higher cpu temps as its pulling warmer air but your gpu and mobo should be slightly cooler as the rad pulls the hot air out of the case. BUT either way you look at it airflow is unbalanced. you want two in two out.
Click to expand...

Thanks and I'll try out speedfan when I get back home.
How would I optimize one fan for intake and the other for outtake though? I don't think I can really reverse the way that my radiator is set up due to the screws, and the case fan that I have is sort of fixed in their position. Should I buy a smaller radiator (140 or 120mm) and then add a different fan? And I'll add the pictures in a while.
 
theres no way to add more airflow, no other fan spots... you gpu is pretty tiny could you add another intake fan onto the side panel beside the gpu? if not I wouldn't worry too much. with speed fan you can create a profile that will balance things out. warning, it will take some playing with to get noise/temps dialed to what you prefer. id try and attach another intake to the end of the gpu. if that's possible then id set the rear to intake and the rad as exhaust. if that doesn't work, set the rad as intake and the back fan as exhaust.

upload_2017-2-14_16-21-20.png
 
pendragon1 said:
theres no way to add more airflow, no other fan spots... you gpu is pretty tiny could you add another intake fan onto the side panel beside the gpu? if not I wouldn't worry too much. with speed fan you can create a profile that will balance things out. warning, it will take some playing with to get noise/temps dialed to what you prefer. id try and attach another intake to the end of the gpu. if that's possible then id set the rear to intake and the rad as exhaust. if that doesn't work, set the rad as intake and the back fan as exhaust.

View attachment 16988
Click to expand...

There's actually no spot to put another fan next to my GPU. For custom fan spots other than my back fan, I'd have to remove my water cooling. I'm going to play with speed fan, and I'm not sure if this helps but:

My water cooler had 2 connections: 1 4 pin that connected to my 2 fans and 1 3 pin that connected to the pump. I put the 4 pin in my CPU fan spot and my 3 pin into a chasis fan connector.

Also, here are some pictures that might help? My cable management isn't that much better but it's a bit cleaner now:

http://imgur.com/a/4UhFZ

EDIT: Also, this might be weird to note but for some reason my temperatures for certain sensors are... ridiculous. For example, on speedfan it says that my system is at 115c (Which isn't true) and it's been saying that since I finished my build. Similar temperatures at AUXTIN1, 2 and 3. Weird.
 
ok dont worry about the extra fan.
yup you have them connected right. the pump is voltage controlled(3pin) and the fans are pwm controlled(4pin).
pic isn't workin though.
and honestly the cabling really isn't that much of a concern. air will go around the cables. LTT/luke did a vid on it and he stuffed some really stupid shit into a case and it barely made a difference.
 
pendragon1 said:
ok dont worry about the extra fan.
yup you have them connected right. the pump is voltage controlled(3pin) and the fans are pwm controlled(4pin).
pic isn't workin though.
and honestly the cabling really isn't that much of a concern. air will go around the cables. LTT/luke did a vid on it and he stuffed some really stupid shit into a case and it barely made a difference.
Click to expand...

Alright, thanks for you help! I fixed the link (http://imgur.com/a/4UhFZ), and unfortunately the fans are still pretty loud, and are always on (even my GPU fan). I guess at this point i should just be thinking of replacing the water cooling fans or getting a new water cooling/air cooling set up. What's your opinion on that?

Also I don't know if speedfan is compatible with my motherboard (ASUS z170i Pro gaming mini itx), but I'm trying.
 
oh yeah it will be compatible, that mobo might even have custom fan control in bios though. you probably wont get the gpu fan to stop, as most have a min of 25-30% speed unless they have the zero-fan function or you mod the bios which I believe nv is now messing with that so...(edit: or you get an adapter to connect the gpu fan to a mobo header, then you can stop it!)
you should be able to get it all set up to do what you want, this should help:
 
pendragon1 said:
oh yeah it will be compatible, that mobo might even have custom fan control in bios though. you probably wont get the gpu fan to stop, as most have a min of 25-30% speed unless they have the zero-fan function or you mod the bios which I believe nv is now messing with that so...(edit: or you get an adapter to connect the gpu fan to a mobo header, then you can stop it!)
you should be able to get it all set up to do what you want, this should help:
Click to expand...


I tried it and it didn't work at all. I have 6 PWM modes and they all have a "DO NOT USE!" setting. I've tried to play around with it and nothing's working, so I'm just going to stick to my BIOS and AI Suite 3 options.
 
Okay so I finally hit a breakthrough.

I played around with my fans for long enough that in the BIOS i finally figured out how to set them to being quieter. I can still hear them and in the future I might invest in some new cooling, but at least what i have is bearable. The only major sounds coming from my build right now is the occassional fan increase/pump sound and my hard drive.

Thanks for your help guys. The only thing I could ask now is if i went to get a new water cooler soon (this one is used so I don't know how much time it has left), what are some good options?
 
The AI suite is fine for fan control, But i'd still just disable the control for the pump header to ensure 100%. The only other thing you can do to reduce fan noise apart from setting a custom curve, etc, is get a new set of fans..

If the pump noise bothers you, most AIO's have it. If you want closer to silence, go Air cooling.
 
ReaperX22 said:
The AI suite is fine for fan control, But i'd still just disable the control for the pump header to ensure 100%. The only other thing you can do to reduce fan noise apart from setting a custom curve, etc, is get a new set of fans..

If the pump noise bothers you, most AIO's have it. If you want closer to silence, go Air cooling.
Click to expand...

Do you have any recommendations for either? For Air Cooling I've been looking into the Be quiet! Shadow Dark Rock Pro 3 and for AIOs I've been looking into the NZXT Kraken X61.
 
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