Official NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 Announcement @ [H]

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Derangel said:
Yup, but oh well. Gotta give Nvidia credit for finding a new to get more money out of people. It's actually rather ingenious. And Nvidia being the only one making the FE cards for 1060 is pretty smart as well. Means AIBs can't cut into their profits.
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That's not how I read it at all. I read it as a condemnation of the FE strategy; Nvidia is aware that their customers are almost universally pissed off with the early adopter tax and are backing away from it.

Obviously they're still going to release reference cards, and the FEs were built assuming the cost of materials would be justified by higher cost, so the 1060 FE gets that $50 bump. But as long as the FE is Nvidia-only, and released simultaneously with AIB cards, I don't see what I'm supposed to be upset about.
 
ppi said:
8GB vs. 6GB is largely discussion about textures. As long as you have enough VRAM, you can typically improve texture quality with minimum performance impact. RoTR specifically cannot run well with less than 6GB with the highest texture setting. This applies to 1080p as well.

In order to have nVidia look bad, all AMD needs to do in their next Gaming Evolved hit title is to have some "Ultra" textures option, that just will not fit in 6GB memory.
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Great idea!! It is not like AMD launched any 4GB cards as part of the budget friendly rebellion.
 
schizo said:
That's not how I read it at all. I read it as a condemnation of the FE strategy; Nvidia is aware that their customers are almost universally pissed off with the early adopter tax and are backing away from it.
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I just think its more likely that they know this isn't the market segment thats going to respond to that game so much because the buyers are too sensitive to price. Thats also ignoring the fact that they didn't sell reference designs in this segment for the 960, so having an FE 1060 might actually be the opposite of them backing away.... rather that they continued the strategy in a market they wouldn't otherwise have sold a reference product just to give legitimacy to the 1070/1080 FE's.
 
That's possible too. Either way, I'm not upset about how they handled the 1060 FEs-- and I was upset with the 1080 FE.
 
Article said:
The special limited GeForce GTX 1060 Founder’s Edition board—designed and built by NVIDIA—will be available starting July 19 for $299 at www.nvidia.comonly. The GeForce GTX 1060 Founder’s Edition is crafted with premium materials and components, including a faceted die-cast aluminum body machine finished for strength and rigidity and a thermal solution designed to run cool and quiet. Like the GeForce GTX 1080 and GTX 1070 Founder’s Edition boards, a dual-FETs power supply is used to improve power efficiency, along with a low impedance power delivery network and custom voltage regulators.
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gtx_1060_pcb_1.jpg


AGAIN They are fucking LYING about the power supply on the card!!! Yeah the PCB has the traces and pads for dual fets on each phase BUT THEY ARE ONLY INSTALLING ONE. Why are they even mentioning this? I mean if they just left that comment out nobody would care, so why do they KEEP ON LYING about this..?

See to the left of each of the chokes, (Grey squares with LR22 on them) there are those little black chips, a total of 4 installed but room for a bunch more. This is a 3+1 phase design, and you only see 4 fets there, ONE for each phase, NOT TWO.

and interestingly enough the PCB is setup for a 256 bit bus ... I wonder why they did that? (Note the two spots at the top for ram chips.)
 
extide said:
gtx_1060_pcb_1.jpg


AGAIN They are fucking LYING about the power supply on the card!!! Yeah the PCB has the traces and pads for dual fets on each phase BUT THEY ARE ONLY INSTALLING ONE. Why are they even mentioning this? I mean if they just left that comment out nobody would care, so why do they KEEP ON LYING about this..?

See to the left of each of the chokes, (Grey squares with LR22 on them) there are those little black chips, a total of 4 installed but room for a bunch more. This is a 3+1 phase design, and you only see 4 fets there, ONE for each phase, NOT TWO.

and interestingly enough the PCB is setup for a 256 bit bus ... I wonder why they did that? (Note the two spots at the top for ram chips.)
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Thats great, so I can solder a couple 1gb chips and instant 8GB 256bit 1060Ti FTW !!!
 
rinaldo00 said:
If GPUs are selling like hotcakes what are laptops and smart phones selling like?
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Clearly a lot more than discrete GPUs. That still doesn't make the mobile gaming platform a better experience or "the future" because the masses have shifted to a convenient and less immersive alternative.
 
extide said:
See to the left of each of the chokes, (Grey squares with LR22 on them) there are those little black chips, a total of 4 installed but room for a bunch more. This is a 3+1 phase design, and you only see 4 fets there, ONE for each phase, NOT TWO.)
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Have you considered that two FETs can reside in the same package, like these 80V, 40A, 8.2milliohm bad boys from Fairchild? IIRC, that's what NVidia is doing.

So, tell us the part numbers of those "little black chips." Or STFU.
 
I find it interesting that the site claims the FE will be a "limited edition", but nVidia made it clear from the 1070 and 1080 FE discussion that they would be available for the lifespan of the card.
 
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Yes, seems that will not be the case for the 1060. Pity, as it's an ideal HTPC solution and you want a blower there.
 
MavericK said:
I find it interesting that the site claims the FE will be a "limited edition", but nVidia made it clear from the 1070 and 1080 FE discussion that they would be available for the lifespan of the card.
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Making it clear that the 1070/1080FE will run the lifetime of the card does not preclude the 1060FE from being a "limited edition" sold only by nvidia.
 
I think I just found my kid's Christmas present to replace their old and tired 570...anxiously awaiting the [H] review.
 
This card is definitely mine when the non-FE version releases, I was hoping it would be $250 and it happened to be spot on.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not big is not the same thing as dying. Just built this sig rig last week and in doing research on everything there doesn't seem to be any lack of components to build such a thing. There will always be a market for better than average.
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My original point was lost in all this talk about the size of the GPU market. I said no new company will come in and try to compete with Nvidia and AMD and sell discrete GPUs. I will take bets on that.
 
Activate: AMD said:
Making it clear that the 1070/1080FE will run the lifetime of the card does not preclude the 1060FE from being a "limited edition" sold only by nvidia.
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True, except why use the exact same terminology if that is the case? They've already grossly mishandled the whole FE concept, doing this would just make it even worse.
 
dark_reign said:
Clearly a lot more than discrete GPUs. That still doesn't make the mobile gaming platform a better experience or "the future" because the masses have shifted to a convenient and less immersive alternative.
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I never said "better" but a wise man once said the race does not always go to the swiftest. For now people think that gaming experience is good enough. You ain't gonna carry a desktop on a bus.
But my original point was lost in all this talk about the size of the GPU market. I said no new company will come in and try to compete with Nvidia and AMD and sell discrete GPUs. I will take bets on that.
 
rinaldo00 said:
My original point was lost in all this talk about the size of the GPU market. I said no new company will come in and try to compete with Nvidia and AMD and sell discrete GPUs. I will take bets on that.
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Ok, on that we agree. I doubt for that matter we'll see new companies come into the mobile handset business beyond small volume novelty types. With GPUs the invest in the tech is steep and the expertise limited. Even Intel couldn't make a go of it though I can't say they really tried. It's unlikely at this point they could without buying into it.
 
MavericK said:
I find it interesting that the site claims the FE will be a "limited edition", but nVidia made it clear from the 1070 and 1080 FE discussion that they would be available for the lifespan of the card.
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The limited edition of the 1060 FE is nvidias wording
 
heatlesssun said:
With GPUs the invest in the tech is steep and the expertise limited. Even Intel couldn't make a go of it though I can't say they really tried.
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Intel has historically viewed discrete GPUs as competitors for money that could have gone towards an Intel processor instead. Intel would far rather you bought a PC with a $500 Intel processor and a $100 GPU than a PC with a $100 processor and a $500 GPU. Now that GPUs are trying to make inroads into compute-heavy tasks, Intel is probably even more hostile to them.

At the center of everything at Intel is the x86 CPU. Anything that enhances the x86 CPU's value and will increase x86 CPU sales and ASPs will thrive at Intel. Anything that might siphon money away from x86 CPU sales is doomed. Therefore, other than integrated ones, GPUs will never thrive at Intel.
 
heatlesssun said:
Ok, on that we agree. I doubt for that matter we'll see new companies come into the mobile handset business beyond small volume novelty types. With GPUs the invest in the tech is steep and the expertise limited. Even Intel couldn't make a go of it though I can't say they really tried. It's unlikely at this point they could without buying into it.
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IIRC, Intel did make a go at the dGPU market with Project Larrabee, and the ashes of that project became the Xeon Phi PPU.
 
pcgeekesq said:
Intel has historically viewed discrete GPUs as competitors for money that could have gone towards an Intel processor instead. Intel would far rather you bought a PC with a $500 Intel processor and a $100 GPU than a PC with a $100 processor and a $500 GPU. Now that GPUs are trying to make inroads into compute-heavy tasks, Intel is probably even more hostile to them.

At the center of everything at Intel is the x86 CPU. Anything that enhances the x86 CPU's value and will increase x86 CPU sales and ASPs will thrive at Intel. Anything that might siphon money away from x86 CPU sales is doomed. Therefore, other than integrated ones, GPUs will never thrive at Intel.
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I think CPUs and GPUs have become pretty distinct products. Some overlap, definitely in pure computational situations but for the vast majority of situations both CPU and GPU capabilities are needed and compliment each other. I can't imagine why Intel wouldn't want to be able to sell $1000 GPUs in addition to $1000 CPUs.
 
"Limited Edition" has no legal definition afaik ... as everything is arguably limited, one way or another.
 
cptnjarhead said:
Looks like no SLI, and i can see their reason, but that gives rx480 more for the money imo.
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I don't really see this as an issue. It is looking like with Explicit Multi Adaptor EMA, the need for both SLI and Crossfire is not needed when it comes to DX12. So you would still be able to run 2 of these in a multi card configuration. If EMA is a hit, then how good would it be to run both an AMD card and an Nvidia card in the same PC. Having the best of both worlds. Its a big ask, but it could be pretty cool.
 
Maddness said:
I don't really see this as an issue. It is looking like with Explicit Multi Adaptor EMA, the need for both SLI and Crossfire is not needed when it comes to DX12. So you would still be able to run 2 of these in a multi card configuration. If EMA is a hit, then how good would it be to run both an AMD card and an Nvidia card in the same PC. Having the best of both worlds. Its a big ask, but it could be pretty cool.
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There was a benchmark a while back showing an AMD and nvidia card together performed better than either two AMD cards or two nvidia cards, but it was just one benchmark, and I think it was more of a tech demo than anything. Edit: Ah, it was Anandtech. There were a couple other sites that did it too, but I think only anandtech covered both nvidia as primary GPU and AMD as primary GPU.
 
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Nobu said:
There was a benchmark a while back showing an AMD and nvidia card together performed better than either two AMD cards or two nvidia cards, but it was just one benchmark, and I think it was more of a tech demo than anything. Edit: Ah, it was Anandtech. There were a couple other sites that did it too, but I think only anandtech covered both nvidia as primary GPU and AMD as primary GPU.
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it was aots, a 980ti with a furyx gave the best performance.

edit: wtf your link to anand magically appeared in my quote. you must have stealth edited...
 
HardOCP already has a card right and drivers? I guess we won't get any benches until the 19th?
 
Nobu said:
There was a benchmark a while back showing an AMD and nvidia card together performed better than either two AMD cards or two nvidia cards, but it was just one benchmark, and I think it was more of a tech demo than anything. Edit: Ah, it was Anandtech. There were a couple other sites that did it too, but I think only anandtech covered both nvidia as primary GPU and AMD as primary GPU.
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Major wag, but my guess was that when using the same driver in CFX/SLI, it's basically doubling up the same code on the cpu, which causes some cpu pressure. When running two different drivers, there is more code variety allowing better parallelism. Total stab in the dark idea though.

Or maybe as simple as 2 drivers that are 100% independent, versus 1 driver doing what it can to feed two cards.
 
The $50 extra "FE" 1060 cards from NV direct won't come with any accessories, right?
 
Well I remember when 3dfx cards where all AIBs. Each AIB would compete against each other, promote and market to their segments looking to gain even further traction. Then 3dfx thought they could make more money by building their own video cards, all to them selves and make all the profits. They bought STB which killed a number of smaller card makers using 3dfx chips. Of course other mistakes happen as well. Nvidia going into card production, sells and store is competing against the other card makers, making their share smaller. What goes along with that is less influence from a multitude of fronts. So the Feeble Edition higher price may help prevent something similar in the past, if Nvidia start to cut prices they would drive out of business AIBs or push them towards AMD.

Just look at the AMD AIBs in just the RX 480, you have a rich variety of choices for which video card best suited for what you want. Now just think you only have one choice (a.k.a 3dfx STB edition). With all the different flavors of the RX 480 the likelihood is you will reach a much bigger buying audience. Each AIB promoting, pushing and marketing their cards figuring out the different market segments. The F- - - Edition card limits somewhat the AIBs I do believe in max price, plus pushing for a MSRP that Nvidia specifies but does not follow nor has an option to buy at the price they set for their own card! Here Nvidia states, "the MSRP is $579" but we will sell our version for $699 - doesn't matter what you call it - it is still manufactured by Nvidia.

Now this being done at a lower price point with the 1060, the mainstream market. Is Nvidia telling the buying public our cards are better then anything the AIBs can give you hence the higher price? And telling the AIBs hey you need to sell at MSRP we set which we will not follow? I see a bigger backlash for Nvidia on this and do wonder what the different AIBs think about this new Nvidia higher price strategy for their line.
 
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I for one am very glad they left SLI out at this price/performance point. My next card will be in this price range and I'm very happy to see NVidia be willing/able to cut out a feature I'll never use and don't care to pay for. If I ever got a 1060 and later "saved up" to get another one because I needed more speed, by then I bet a new generation would be out and it would be simpler and more cost effective to just replace the card with whatever came out next. If you can't afford $400 for a 1070 why can you afford to pay $250 now and $250 later, spending $500 for what will in most cases be less performance than the $400 option would have been in the first place? I can see SLI 1070s or 1080s 'cause people buying that level of performance can clearly pay to play at that level. But come on now, people at the $250 price range are fooling themselves badly if they think SLI is going to help.

Deliver an extra few pizzas and get a card that's faster and worth running SLI in the first place, if you're really on the fence between a 1070 and 1060 due to price alone. If you can't afford it, the problem is your income level and spending priorities, not some evil marketing scheme NVidia cooked up to make everyone mad.

I got a GTX260 years ago and by the time it wasn't "fast enough" for someone who didn't absolutely have to buy something faster to begin with, getting a second 260 would have been a stupid waste of money. I don't see the 1060 being any different so its awesome that maybe the card price can come down a bit to make the level of expected performance affordable to more people who just need a "newer" card that'll last a few years.

For that matter... There's your reason to get an overbuilt FE card, right there. If the FE cards use better components, I would expect them to last longer in the systems of people who only upgrade their older cards when they are actually obsolete and won't even run ANY new games at all anymore (like my ancient gtx260). If you buy a new video card every 4-5 years, $50 on capacitors and fans that won't die after a year might be a good investment, certainly far better than paying for an SLI connector and circuitry you won't ever use.
 
flenser said:
I for one am very glad they left SLI out at this price/performance point. My next card will be in this price range and I'm very happy to see NVidia be willing/able to cut out a feature I'll never use and don't care to pay for. If I ever got a 1060 and later "saved up" to get another one because I needed more speed, by then I bet a new generation would be out and it would be simpler and more cost effective to just replace the card with whatever came out next. If you can't afford $400 for a 1070 why can you afford to pay $250 now and $250 later, spending $500 for what will in most cases be less performance than the $400 option would have been in the first place? I can see SLI 1070s or 1080s 'cause people buying that level of performance can clearly pay to play at that level. But come on now, people at the $250 price range are fooling themselves badly if they think SLI is going to help.

Deliver an extra few pizzas and get a card that's faster and worth running SLI in the first place, if you're really on the fence between a 1070 and 1060 due to price alone. If you can't afford it, the problem is your income level and spending priorities, not some evil marketing scheme NVidia cooked up to make everyone mad.

I got a GTX260 years ago and by the time it wasn't "fast enough" for someone who didn't absolutely have to buy something faster to begin with, getting a second 260 would have been a stupid waste of money. I don't see the 1060 being any different so its awesome that maybe the card price can come down a bit to make the level of expected performance affordable to more people who just need a "newer" card that'll last a few years.

For that matter... There's your reason to get an overbuilt FE card, right there. If the FE cards use better components, I would expect them to last longer in the systems of people who only upgrade their older cards when they are actually obsolete and won't even run ANY new games at all anymore (like my ancient gtx260). If you buy a new video card every 4-5 years, $50 on capacitors and fans that won't die after a year might be a good investment, certainly far better than paying for an SLI connector and circuitry you won't ever use.
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That is one way of looking at it but also look at you buy one high end card this year, 1-2 years later you can pick up another card dirt cheap and still have better performance overall then buying the highest performing card out today. In that respect that is a cost saving over all.

You buy one 480 now, year or so when they are dirt cheap you buy another and it performs better then the 1070. DX 12 does promote more gpu's because it unleashes the cpu full capability and not limiting to 1 to 2 threads. Multiple gpu's either by multiple cards or on the same card will be more supported on the API level and developer level then ever before. I expect multiple cards or gpus to become even more useful in the future. The consoles may adopt a add on GPU option for example in the future - Microsoft could very extend the usability of the XBox 1 that way if they want.
 
Odds on the "1050" card being a tweaked and re-branded 980/970 that can run the latest drivers for an extra year before going obsolete? They've done it many times before, hauling the previous generation's mid-high end up to the "current generation" lineup with some driver tweaks and a promise to deliver drivers for a bit longer. Lets them keep a proven chip design in the lineup with zero emphasis on actual performance, just compatibility with the next DXwhatever version.
 
flenser said:
I for one am very glad they left SLI out at this price/performance point. My next card will be in this price range and I'm very happy to see NVidia be willing/able to cut out a feature I'll never use and don't care to pay for.
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You are probably right, but SLI is still a nice option for those on a budget and/or people that just like to max out their hardware configs (i.e. die-hard Raid 0 fans, even with SSD's).
 
Noko that's apples and oranges. NVidia didn't remove SLI from the high end, as you say in your example. I think SLI totally belongs on the 1070 and 1080 product points, because it might make sense to SLI those cards. A 1060 though... I just can't see any circumstance where that's a good idea. Not that people haven't been trying to nickle-and-dime SLI setups out of mid-low end cards before, but its kind of dumb and impatient to waste money like that.
 
Lord Risky said:
You are probably right, but SLI is still a nice option for those on a budget and/or people that just like to max out their hardware configs (i.e. die-hard Raid 0 fans, even with SSD's).
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I've been there, done that, since the very first 3dfx dual card setups hit the market. SLI on the top 2 cards (and top 3 when they refresh with TI line) makes total sense. Below that its simply being impatient and frankly not a smart idea. If you're thinking putting 2 $250 cards in SLI next year is a good idea because you can't afford the extra $400 for a much faster SLI card today, then you can't afford it "today" and need to adjust your priorities. Save up the extra $150 before buying the 1060 in the first place, or get a second job :)

I remember 20 years ago wondering if my system would benefit from that sparkly new card, debating a modest $200 upgrade now vs. a true $400 step up a few months later... 20 years later I'm totally on board with the $250 card not being part of a dumb upgrade path for the foolish, lazy, or impatient :)

I'm *sure* there is an argument somewhere for SLI 1060s instead of getting a 1070 and doing SLI with THAT a bit later. I just can't think of one situation that isn't better addressed by waiting a month or two and buying the right card to begin with.
 
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