NVIDIA rumored to be preparing GeForce RTX 4080/4070 SUPER cards

chameleoneel said:
The current PNY stuff is really good. They aren't the cheap brand they used to be. Techpowerup said this about their 4080 Verto XLR8:

It's been a while since I've tested a graphics card from PNY, we all mostly know them from the professional-grade NVIDIA graphics cards that they produce. It seems they are making a push for the consumer market—no doubt to capture EVGA's market share that's available now. I have to say I'm seriously impressed by what PNY has delivered here. Their cooling solution is top-notch and can easily compete with the offerings from ASUS, MSI and Zotac. Having the most powerful cooler won't help any bit if your fan settings suck. Here too, PNY has done a fantastic job. Their card is actually the quietest RTX 4080 that I've tested today. Yup, even quieter than the premium offerings from MSI and ASUS. With just 26 dBA under full load, the card is pretty much inaudible in any setup that has other source of noise, like the CPU cooler or watercooling radiator fans. It seems PNY understands that offering great noise levels sells GPUs. MSI realized this many years ago, hence their stellar climb from value-manufacturer to tier one hardware company started. While other vendors include a dual BIOS feature with their cards, I see no reason why this is needed on the PNY RTX 4080. The card runs extremely quiet, and runs at super low temperatures of 64°C—what else could you wish for?


And they said similarly good things about their 4070 ti:

PNY's factory overclocked RTX 4070 Ti is based on the NVIDIA reference PCB design, PNY just added circuitry for their RGB lighting effects. The cooler on the other hand is a fully custom design, and PNY did amazing work here, just like on their other GeForce 40 cards. Our apples-to-apples heatsink comparison test that measures only the heatsink's capabilities reveals that PNY is offering the most powerful cooler of all the cards tested today. They also paired it with fantastic fan settings that are incredibly quiet. Just 28 dBA under full load is whisper quiet—even in a quiet room—very impressive. At this noise level, the PNY RTX 4070 Ti OC is the second-quietest card, beating all the other famous big name brands! Temperatures are really good, too, just 63°C is comfortably cool. What I really like is that PNY isn't hiding those great fan settings behind a manually-activated dual BIOS "quiet" profile like some other vendors do. As expected from all modern graphics cards, all GeForce RTX 4070 Ti cards come with the idle-fan-stop capability that shuts off the fans when not gaming.
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Most of it isn't really the quality of their current cards, it's mainly their warranty, which I talked about above. I think most of the 4xxx offerings are pretty high quality at those price tags, build wise... the retention clip issue aside...
 
chameleoneel said:
The current PNY stuff is really good. They aren't the cheap brand they used to be. Techpowerup said this about their 4080 Verto XLR8:
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Comparing the their 4070 XLR8 to the ASUS Dual which have been similar priced recently, the XLR8 is a lot quieter. Initially the XLR8 was more expensive but recently it has been discounted to be as cheap as the basic models from ASUS/MSI. It may have a locked power limit so no OCing potential, but in terms of noise/temps it is actually very nice.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Most of it isn't really the quality of their current cards, it's mainly their warranty, which I talked about above. I think most of the 4xxx offerings are pretty high quality at those price tags, build wise... the retention clip issue aside...
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You can find some warranty issues with anything through Google. The real question is do they systematically deny valid rma requests, and I've never heard of that with them. Always been good feedback. Same with zotac.
 
GoldenTiger said:
You can find some warranty issues with anything through Google. The real question is do they systematically deny valid rma requests, and I've never heard of that with them. Always been good feedback. Same with zotac.
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I mean, I posted some really bad feedback above, and it's relatively recent. One of those links was an actual RMA requester. I'm pretty sure I've read more than that, too. Another post was from a user (granted this is only allegedly) that looked through their terms and noted they were extremely strict, to the point where they have reason to deny an RMA for basically anything. I'm sure every manufacturer has clauses such as this, but if theirs allows them more leeway than even other manufacturers, it sounds to me like that would be grounds for suspecting the systematic denial that you're referring to. Zotac... seems more like it's kind of hard to even get in contact with them to begin with, as I understand it. There's also that it's non transferable, though some might not consider that an issue.

I'm not sure if ASUS needs any introduction, as they're kind of notorious in this space.

It's really hard to say, all you have to go on is some reports through googling and trying to gauge overall reputation. Just from what I've seen, I wouldn't put stock in them, personally. But everyone's money is their own, so they need to do their own research and come to their own conclusions. For workstation, though, PNY seems to be fine afaik.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
I mean, I posted some really bad feedback above, and it's relatively recent. One of those links was an actual RMA requester. I'm pretty sure I've read more than that, too. Another post was from a user (granted this is only allegedly) that looked through their terms and noted they were extremely strict, to the point where they have reason to deny an RMA for basically anything. I'm sure every manufacturer has clauses such as this, but if theirs allows them more leeway than even other manufacturers, it sounds to me like that would be grounds for suspecting the systematic denial that you're referring to. Zotac... seems more like it's kind of hard to even get in contact with them to begin with, as I understand it. There's also that it's non transferable, though some might not consider that an issue.

I'm not sure if ASUS needs any introduction, as they're kind of notorious in this space.

It's really hard to say, all you have to go on is some reports through googling and trying to gauge overall reputation. Just from what I've seen, I wouldn't put stock in them, personally. But everyone's money is their own, so they need to do their own research and come to their own conclusions. For workstation, though, PNY seems to be fine afaik.
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PNY, Palit, Gainward, they are fine barebones GPU nothing exceptionally fancy they just do what they need to.
ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI they are all the same in my opinion, you can go back and forth on shitty things each has or hasn’t done going back as far as you want really but at the end of the day they work.
Nvidia runs a pretty tight ship and doesn’t let them really go off script, they would love to do stuff to try and separate themselves from the pack but really Nvidia’s reference designs don’t leave a lot on the table. So they can play with fan curves and try and do little things for overclocking and power tuning but there’s only so much water you can squeeze from a stone.
 
Blade-Runner said:
Interesting rumors from MLID...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcJZrWS5xfc&ab_channel=Moore%27sLawIsDead

Sounds like the Supers are going to happen, and in the meantime Nvidia is intentionally and artificially keeping 4090 prices high to make Super pricing look reasonable.
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I think it’s more reasonable to make the leap the spike in Chinese demand trying to get these before the new embargo’s kick in is what’s driving up price on the 4090, but hey.
 
Lakados said:
I think it’s more reasonable to make the leap the spike in Chinese demand trying to get these before the new embargo’s kick in is what’s driving up price on the 4090, but hey.
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That's the prevailing theory, but according to his sources Nvidia has decided not to shift inventory out of South East Asia to other markets because it believes there will still be sufficient black market demand from China.
 
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Blade-Runner said:
That's the prevailing theory, but according to his sources Nvidia has decided not to shift inventory out of South East Asia to other markets because it believes there will still be sufficient black market demand from China.
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He states in the video they’re not moving inventory out of China because of shipping container costs and the added costs of that to Nvidia, when people on the black market would still get Nvidia GPUs to sell in China regardless so spending money to ship them out wouldn’t help that anyway and just be a waste of all resources

Nvidia would get in trouble with the US if they sold to or allowed black market sales in China, the entire point of the chip ban(s) - even for products already exported I believe

They’re just gonna let it rot in a warehouse instead, seeing as it’s more economically efficient to do that (while raising price of 4090 outside China to compensate for that) than trying to ship them back and sell them where allowed.

Is what the rumor entails.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
I get that, but the 4070 Ti's existence was kind of a kick in the proverbial nuts to begin with, thanks to its 192 bit bus (which did show bottlenecking in 4k though) and only 12 GB of ram. People still ended up buying it because it was good enough. The 4070 Ti released in January of this year. Normally I think cards within the same gen might last a little longer than a year before becoming completely obsoleted by them releasing a version that would basically be better in every way possible. People ate that 4070 Ti price after giving the card a fair chance, and then they do this... They keep this up, no one's going to buy round 1 cards. They'll just wait until the Supers come around that fix the issues.

Which is fine by me, Nvidia needs to get kicked a bit. Maybe they should have worked harder at releasing a generation where the only card that was really worth it was the 4090...
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I'm not sure they'll "always" release a "Super". The only other time they did it was during Turing when they tried to pull the same "crypto pricing is the new market pricing" stunt they did this time around with the exact same results. The "Super" cards are what the initial cards should have been, IE ones with sufficient VRAM and memory bandwidth for the price.

Nvidia is fine with this either way. With 80%+ market share, and the vast majority of those customers convinced they can buy nothing else, releasing borderline obsolete cards just means they get to sell more later. Everyone knew the 4070 Ti had insufficient VRAM and a gimped memory bus, but bought it anyway. They'll buy the 5070 Ti next year, so it's all good.
 
staknhalo said:
He states in the video they’re not moving inventory out of China because of shipping container costs and the added costs of that to Nvidia, when people on the black market would still get Nvidia GPUs to sell in China regardless so spending money to ship them out wouldn’t help that anyway and just be a waste of all resources

Nvidia would get in trouble with the US if they sold to or allowed black market sales in China, the entire point of the chip ban(s) - even for products already exported I believe

They’re just gonna let it rot in a warehouse instead, seeing as it’s more economically efficient to do that (while raising price of 4090 outside China to compensate for that) than trying to ship them back and sell them where allowed.

Is what the rumor entails.
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Well moving supply as needed from China to Japan, India, Taiwan, and the surrounding areas in a response to the black market gobbling up their cards to smuggle into China may be a good thing.
 
Lakados said:
Well moving supply as needed from China to Japan, India, Taiwan, and the surrounding areas in a response to the black market gobbling up their cards to smuggle into China may be a good thing.
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Not a good thing to Nvidia - not when they would lose (more) money doing that (paying for containers to ship cards out) vs just letting them sit in a warehouse to rot

If someone wants to pay for that, for/on behalf of Nvidia, for 'the greater good', I'm sure Nvidia has a PayPal or something they can send the money to
 
staknhalo said:
Not a good thing to Nvidia - not when they would lose (more) money doing that (paying for containers to ship cards out) vs just letting them sit in a warehouse to rot

If someone wants to pay for that, for/on behalf of Nvidia, for 'the greater good', I'm sure Nvidia has a PayPal or something they can send the money to
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They are going to naturally have shipping containers move in those directions anyways, they can toss a few boxes at a time in with those.

Yeah there’s no point in paying for new shipping containers, but it’s not like the AIB’s are moving their manufacturing out of China as a result of these bans. So just use the existing 4090’s as padding to ensure those crates are full.
 
Lakados said:
They are going to naturally have shipping containers move in those directions anyways, they can toss a few boxes at a time in with those.
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Doesn't work like that - you pay for volume/weight specifically - you can't just 'toss extra stuff in'
 
They could ship the 4090's if they wanted to, just a easy way to reduce supply to keep prices high, works in there favor more then actually bringing in more supply. At this point I think most people that could have bought a 4090 have done so. So sales on it are likely really slow anyway.
 
Glad i got the pny 4090 a day ago. now in stock lists it as sold out and +200$ Looks like 4090 are drying up now
 
Not sure if it is more of a USA centric problem this gen or I am just noticing it but I'll say it again all you have to do is drive up north and 4090's a plenty for all. Founders 4090 at my store down the street, want one? (backorder sold out finally but I've noticed this usually lasts a week or two then opens again) I just checked stock of the main 4 places I would shop, dozens of varieties online shipping now, hundreds of units available. For such a small population base in comparison to the states this is a huge amount for the top sku and its been like this the whole time. Heck, the first shipment of 4080's are probably still on the same spot on the shelves here. I've been theorizing the whole time much like the 4080's value proposition being artificially neutered, that there are layers to NVIDIA's pricing manipulation now. (everyone has stopped discussing the warehouses FULL of ampere... these units didn't sell... NVIDIA didn't lower prices, as they refused to budge!).

So for the investors among us, where/when can we see new NVIDIA numbers and laugh at the amount of back "inventory" they are sitting on. I know the reality is they simply do not care because AI is the new cash cow (like mining did for them). I wait for the days where video cards are used for GAMING. Then the people in here making arguments that people "HAVE" to buy (and did?) the 4070ti and will... are justified? I think not, Mr. Jensen has been lucky and on a huge run of luck, IMO, it WILL either run out or he will be regulated into compliance. Its happened before, it will happen again, this China business has a good chance of ruffling the right feathers.

Anyway, apologies for that tirade, MLiD mentions boil my blood, its the equivalent of 'insert trendy tabloid here'. (please do not moderate me for that mention, if he's on the payroll or something here just tell me and ill stop mentioning his name at all, no problemo)

ADA / 4xxx stock (and pricing, there are sales here...) has been like this since 10-15 days after launch in canuckistan, all the mass hysteria has been USA market only. Granted, I cannot comment on Europe and they have their own issues with getting FE products as I understand it.
 
I can get being angry at some form of scalping, but here we would talk about people doing real work and service for their clients (and taking some real risk), smuggler more than scalper.
 
LukeTbk said:
I can get being angry at some form of scalping, but here we would talk about people doing real work and service for their clients (and taking some real risk), smuggler more than scalper.
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Well the ban was going to take effect on Nov 19, so purchases and shipments getting there before hand would have been legal.
 
Lakados said:
Well the ban was going to take effect on Nov 19, so purchases and shipments getting there before hand would have been legal.
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risk of loosing time and money in that case, I was going with the person saying smuggle has if that would happen knowing nothing about it.
 
Blade-Runner said:
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...ate-might-involve-a-mix-of-ad103-102-104-gpus
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Screenshot_20231026-032736.png


Kopite never fails the Ice Man more memory or faster memory might mean more fps.
 
Lakados said:
Well if the 4080 Super uses an AD102… they could do quite well in closing the gap on the 4090.

The rest of the stack could get weird, slightly faster but significantly better lows.
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So, theoretically, a 4080 Super can use an AD102 and still have a 384-bit bus and 20GB of Vram?
That looks pretty good, to me, if so.

LukeTbk said:
The comment is made because the 4080 already use almost all the AD103 chip, going from 95% of the core to 100% would not be much, memory system change aside a 4080 super would not bring much.

Would a 15% faster card would be possible without doign a new chip or going to the worst bin reserve of the AD102 that poster would not mind it.

Considering the product stack, they could use the super just as a excuse to reduce the pricing where they want it to be without an official massive price cut announcement with no apparent reason.

The 4070TI already use 100% of the AD104, not much place to go, bad AD103 that cannot be ship in laptop anymore.. maybe

could gddr7 being ready "save them", easy bump without much work

They arguably already have pretty much all they need, just have to adjust name and price has needed.
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The current 4080 seems a bit gimped though - which is why the price is way too high, currently.

Lakados said:
The 4090 on the 102 and the 4080 on the 103 have a huge gap between them. But the 4080 doesn’t leave a lot on the table for growth, changing it over to a 102 they could easily land that at a half way point between the 4080 and the 4090 and call that a day.
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Agreed.

Tactlesss said:
I'm on the edge of my seat with the possibility of a 4030.
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A 4040 might sound/look cooler, though?

noko said:
I would say if Nvidia and AIBs reduce the stupidly big cooler sizes for cards that don’t need it, virtually all of them, so normal people with normal size cases have less issues. Increase ram sizes some and reduce cost, Nvidia would do extremely well.

Also, a 102 die that can be sold in China with upcoming if not implemented ban of 4090 sells there. I would think Nvidia with their very successful 102 die sells and production would have a stockpile built up of failed GPUs that could work in a 4080 Super, 20gb. 10 to 15% slower than a 4090.
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Get a normal sized case? A normal case size might fit whatever gpu you get. It's funny, these peeps who get ITX cases and then complain/cry that none of the gpus out there fit in their case. Gpus got big - they ate a lot of food...they produce a lot of heat and power.
Which reminds me, if some ppl on here are saying the coolers are too big, needlessly too big what about AMD RDNA 3 cards that produce way more power (heat, too?) than each comparative nvidia card?!?
 
pavel said:
Get a normal sized case? A normal case size might fit whatever gpu you get. It's funny, these peeps who get ITX cases and then complain/cry that none of the gpus out there fit in their case. Gpus got big - they ate a lot of food...they produce a lot of heat and power.
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The cooler, sure, but there's another issue. I have a Lian Li Lancool Mesh II. It is 100% a normal size case. If I try fully closing the doors with my Suprim X Liquid in there, I'll be compressing the tubing a lot and more importantly compressing the power adapter a lot. The tubing doesn't care too much, but the already (apparently fragile) 12VHPWR cabling getting mangled is important. It might not be as much of an issue for people with native 12VHPWR connectors from their PSU, but even then I don't think you're supposed to compress those too close to the socket due to the stress it puts on that connector, what with all of the burning stories. I opted to just leave my case doors a bit ajar simply to accommodate it.

Of course that's not so much an issue with the cooler as it is with the stupid 12VHPWR standard. God I wish they would have just stuck with 4 8 Pin connectors, personally... sigh.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
The cooler, sure, but there's another issue. I have a Lian Li Lancool Mesh II. It is 100% a normal size case. If I try fully closing the doors with my Suprim X Liquid in there, I'll be compressing the tubing a lot and more importantly compressing the power adapter a lot. The tubing doesn't care too much, but the already (apparently fragile) 12VHPWR cabling getting mangled is important. It might not be as much of an issue for people with native 12VHPWR connectors from their PSU, but even then I don't think you're supposed to compress those too close to the socket due to the stress it puts on that connector, what with all of the burning stories. I opted to just leave my case doors a bit ajar simply to accommodate it.

Of course that's not so much an issue with the cooler as it is with the stupid 12VHPWR standard. God I wish they would have just stuck with 4 8 Pin connectors, personally... sigh.
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I would say, it's not a '100% normal size' case anymore. Why? Why am I saying that? I'm saying that because of the huge gpus nowadays - and they need big coolers because the companies haven't figured out how to 'stuff' all that performance, heat and power in a smaller envelope. My brother has the same case as you. I think it looked normal when he got it. LOL! I recommended a Corsair 4000D Airflow but when we went to the store to look at it and other parts, we were shocked that it looked so small. :) I ultimately got a bigger case - a Phanteks P500A. I think that size or thereabouts is the 'new normal.' Most large gpus can fit it in it. If you think you might go for either Nvidia's or AMD's flagship cards one day - I would plan ahead of time and get a bigger case. I'm not suggesting a king kong ATX /E-ATX case but given the dimensions of video cards - just something that will fit whatever you buy. At least, every gamer should be doing that, imho.
If you want something small/or itx - well, you will be limited - and you deserve the pita it entails....lol....j/k but yeah, I'm kinda serious. :) I used to like mini-itx and smaller form factor PCs but really, it's too complicated - everything so compact - difficult to work in - limited component choices, restrictions galore etc. etc.
That's just my two cents. I think that Lian Li case is probably the best ATX overall but I would say it's kind of small for the coolers and video cards out there nowadays. :)
 
I hesitantly look forward to the SoC future where our CPUs and GPUs come in an OAM form factor and they just socket down to the motherboard for a unified cooling solution.
 
pavel said:
I would say, it's not a '100% normal size' case anymore. Why? Why am I saying that? I'm saying that because of the huge gpus nowadays - and they need big coolers because the companies haven't figured out how to 'stuff' all that performance, heat and power in a smaller envelope. My brother has the same case as you. I think it looked normal when he got it. LOL! I recommended a Corsair 4000D Airflow but when we went to the store to look at it and other parts, we were shocked that it looked so small. :) I ultimately got a bigger case - a Phanteks P500A. I think that size or thereabouts is the 'new normal.' Most large gpus can fit it in it. If you think you might go for either Nvidia's or AMD's flagship cards one day - I would plan ahead of time and get a bigger case. I'm not suggesting a king kong ATX /E-ATX case but given the dimensions of video cards - just something that will fit whatever you buy. At least, every gamer should be doing that, imho.
If you want something small/or itx - well, you will be limited - and you deserve the pita it entails....lol....j/k but yeah, I'm kinda serious. :) I used to like mini-itx and smaller form factor PCs but really, it's too complicated - everything so compact - difficult to work in - limited component choices, restrictions galore etc. etc.
That's just my two cents. I think that Lian Li case is probably the best ATX overall but I would say it's kind of small for the coolers and video cards out there nowadays. :)
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But this doesn't have much to do with the cooler. The power connectors are attached to the actual PCB, which isn't all that big. It's just with 4x8pin connectors, they individually were only responsible for 150W and they could basically be bent right at the connector. The 12VHPWR connector is carrying way too much freaking wattage for its size, so it's much more delicate. Many people got 90 or 180 degree connectors, but those also have some stories of burning down, so I want to stick to the OEM.

For my part, I got a cheap $10 kit or something off Amazon that included plastic grills that I could cut into shape, along with magnets that I could then paste to my case. It's been working great. Dust keeps out and my temps are even better than they used to be. Not exactly a looker, but whatever. I'll take a pic sometime.
 
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