New Macbook / Razer Core External GPU

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AVT

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Yes, I know it's not officially supported.

I'm hoping it will still work, given that eGPU on OS X with some hacking has been possible for a while. I do stuff with statistics/machine learning/artificial intelligence for a living and CUDA eGPU would be amazing because I could prototype my code without having to deal with SSH, remote development, and other forms of nonsense.

If anybody sees any info, please post!
 
I've been looking into eGPU solutions recently as well.

It seems that there are really only 2 options:
Bizon Box 2: which is generally considered to be overpriced. However it seems like it's the most mature product and includes an internal power supply to support thirsty graphics cards. However for a 300w version, it's just.... expensive.
Akitio Thunder 2 PCIE Box. It works, albeit with hacks. Some have used powersupplies externally. And apparently at least one user has figured out that a Dell powersupply can feed some 200w graphics cards.

So the big issue then: is buying a PCIE Thunderbolt box cost effective? If you go say the route of a Bizon Box 2 and a 1070, you'll spend basically $1k. Obviously for the same amount, you could just build a PC. I'd love to hear your thoughts on dollar to value.
I think it makes a lot of sense for certain users to go the route of building an eGPU especially for gaming and/or compute as Apple themselves offer no high-end option. It allows users to stay completely in the OSX/Mac ecosystem, or use a single machine to dual boot as opposed to multi-machines if they prefer to have machines take up less space.

A Mac Mini then with an eGPU could be a serious contender for an 4K HTPC/gaming machine. But that of course would probably cost nearly $1200 for just the enclosure and video card, plus another $500-$800 for the mini. It seems affordable to only the most staunch enthusiast.

===

I think the silver lining is that if eGPUs continue to mature, they could eventually become cost effective. Right now there are no manufacturers of thunderbolt 3/USB-C pcie enclosures other than razer who really only makes it for their own products. I think with another gen or 2 or a year or 2, there might be plenty of options driving the cost down. Similar to say other peripherals like thunderbolt docks.

We still haven't seen a lot of Mac only manufacturers jump into the fray yet. OWC as an example would be a prime candidate to make an eGPU box. Until then though you're left only with pricey options.

The only other thing to consider is that once a TB3/USB3 option comes down the line, hopefully the only real thought or cost to entry will just be buying the enclosure itself, which isn't something I discussed. Obviously the initial cost of $500+/- dollars is high, but if you keep it for 5+ years and swap video cards every couple years or whatever, it isn't a repeat expenditure. Provided no other connection becomes predominant, it seems like buying the box becomes more financially viable. However, until a TB3 box gets released for all (and not just a Razer peripheral) it's probably not a good time to invest... unless you just have a ton of money.
 
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I know this will bump the thread, but I'm doing so because I think this is important and relevant information.

Apparently the first one exists. Bizon is first to market with a USB-C eGPU solution:
https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox3-egpu.html/

Pricey.

But now it exists. So if you want an eGPU solution that will work and is TB3/USB-C then there you go. I think what is more agregious is just the shipping time. 4-5 weeks? AND $650? The product had better be flawless.
 
Currently trying to figure out whether the non touch bar MBP has the same Thunderbolt bandwidth as the touch bar MBP.

Apple claims 40gb/s, but each port on the non touch bar version appears to be capped at 20gb/s which makes it a combined figure for both ports.

Have not seen any information about the touch bar version.

eGPU support will come with time. The Razer Core unfortunately doesn't work OTB, but that may change in the future. I'm hopeful.
 
AVT said:
Currently trying to figure out whether the non touch bar MBP has the same Thunderbolt bandwidth as the touch bar MBP.

Apple claims 40gb/s, but each port on the non touch bar version appears to be capped at 20gb/s which makes it a combined figure for both ports.

Have not seen any information about the touch bar version.

eGPU support will come with time. The Razer Core unfortunately doesn't work OTB, but that may change in the future. I'm hopeful.
Click to expand...


I linked an eGPU option that does work out of the box. I wouldn't depend on Razer for that either, just as an FYI, unless you intend on buying products within the Razer ecosystem.
 
To be honest, I would rather have eGPU on the same laptop display.

The retina Macbook Display is something that I always want to game on with full resolution, but yet eGPU required external monitor.

The technology seems to be quite limited in that sense.
 
shansoft said:
To be honest, I would rather have eGPU on the same laptop display.

The retina Macbook Display is something that I always want to game on with full resolution, but yet eGPU required external monitor.

The technology seems to be quite limited in that sense.
Click to expand...

The tech is new and I think it is only a matter of time.

The primary issue is bandwidth - can the interface stream textures and other data to the GPU fast enough, while also streaming the output back to the display?

A Nvidia Tesla card or should be able to, but from what I remember consumer-level GeForce cards can only transfer data through PCIE in a unidirectional manner. If this is the primary limitation, then perhaps in later generations it will go away, though I'm not a hardware engineer and there may be other ones.

UnknownSouljer said:
I linked an eGPU option that does work out of the box. I wouldn't depend on Razer for that either, just as an FYI, unless you intend on buying products within the Razer ecosystem.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily believe them, because I've read that the BizonBox and the Akitio Node are based off of the exact same OEM design that does not work OTB. With 4-5 weeks shipping, it may be that Bizon Tech is delaying release of their product with the hope that someone in the OSx86 community finds a way to make the GPU work, which may or may not happen anytime soon.

For my use case display driver doesn't really matter, what I want is a working CUDA driver. At this point, I'll be buying the Akitio Node as soon as it's released and will use it on Linux. Not ideal, but a massive step in the right direction.
 
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AVT said:
The tech is new and I think it is only a matter of time.

The primary issue is bandwidth - can the interface stream textures and other data to the GPU fast enough, while also streaming the output back to the display?

A Nvidia Tesla card or should be able to, but from what I remember consumer-level GeForce cards can only transfer data through PCIE in a unidirectional manner. If this is the primary limitation, then perhaps in later generations it will go away, though I'm not a hardware engineer and there may be other ones.
Click to expand...

I was thinking maybe we can do the output from eGPU and using DP-Thunderbolt back to the Mac, then essentially using Mac to stream the data output.
 
shansoft said:
I was thinking maybe we can do the output from eGPU and using DP-Thunderbolt back to the Mac, then essentially using Mac to stream the data output.
Click to expand...

With two cables, bidirectional PCIE is a non-issue. However, the question then is whether or not the hardware i.e. Intel Thunderbolt controller can redirect the video output to the monitor. Whether or not this is possible depends on precisely what the display is connected to - if it's connected to the integrated GPU directly, I'd imagine this would be a problem. Someone who knows the hardware better than me could probably say more.
 
AVT said:
The tech is new and I think it is only a matter of time.

The primary issue is bandwidth - can the interface stream textures and other data to the GPU fast enough, while also streaming the output back to the display?

A Nvidia Tesla card or should be able to, but from what I remember consumer-level GeForce cards can only transfer data through PCIE in a unidirectional manner. If this is the primary limitation, then perhaps in later generations it will go away, though I'm not a hardware engineer and there may be other ones.
Click to expand...

Interestingly enough, it seems to be a software/OS limitation and not a hardware one (with the exception of having an internal GPU as explained briefly below).
In macOS, Bizon states that gpGPU functions work just fine without need for external input. Which primarily covers the usage of Adobe programs. So if all you want/need is better Premiere performance and external monitor isn't necessary and the Bizon box will improve performance without one.

However for things like gaming and rendering, it does require an external monitor is macOS.

Why it appears to be an OS limitation is due to Bizon's statements that in Windows it's possible to have the GPU fed back into the monitor display, whereas in macOS it is not.
There is another caveat, which is related to whether or not you have only integrated graphics or also a GPU (If you have a GPU, then rendering back to the internal monitor isn't possible). Still interesting none-the-less.

Ref: https://support.bizon-tech.com/hc/e...l-I-need-an-external-monitor-for-my-BizonBOX-



AVT said:
I don't necessarily believe them, because I've read that the BizonBox and the Akitio Node are based off of the exact same OEM design that does not work OTB. With 4-5 weeks shipping, it may be that Bizon Tech is delaying release of their product with the hope that someone in the OSx86 community finds a way to make the GPU work, which may or may not happen anytime soon.

For my use case display driver doesn't really matter, what I want is a working CUDA driver. At this point, I'll be buying the Akitio Node as soon as it's released and will use it on Linux. Not ideal, but a massive step in the right direction.
Click to expand...

It's not really worth the time to debate, but just for reference, this is their third generation of product. Not to say that everything will work without a hitch or you won't have to install things, but I'm fairly confident that it does work and work well even. I personally don't believe that they are based off the same product. As the previous gen of Akitio didn't work out of the box either, whereas the Bizon did. Part of that of course is the powersupply. Bizon guarantees that it works in OSX otb. Akitio makes no such claim.
But like I say, this isn't really worth debating. Unless we have someone actually disassemble and check both it's not empirical. However, I personally don't think they are.
Buy what suits you.

Ref: https://support.bizon-tech.com/hc/e...onnect-my-BizonBOX-and-configure-it-properly-
 
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A quick update on the info from my last post: the non touch bar MBP has the exact same Thunderbolt bandwidth as the touch bar MBP - in fact, it has the exact same Thunderbolt controller. Upon finding this out, I ordered and now own the non touch bar 16gb MBP.

UnknownSouljer said:
Interestingly enough, it seems to be a software/OS limitation and not a hardware one (with the exception of having an internal GPU as explained briefly below).
In macOS, Bizon states that gpGPU functions work just fine without need for external input. Which primarily covers the usage of Adobe programs. So if all you want/need is better Premiere performance and external monitor isn't necessary and the Bizon box will improve performance without one.

However for things like gaming and rendering, it does require an external monitor is macOS.

Why it appears to be an OS limitation is due to Bizon's statements that in Windows it's possible to have the GPU fed back into the monitor display, whereas in macOS it is not.
There is another caveat, which is related to whether or not you have only integrated graphics or also a GPU (If you have a GPU, then rendering back to the internal monitor isn't possible). Still interesting none-the-less.

Ref: https://support.bizon-tech.com/hc/e...l-I-need-an-external-monitor-for-my-BizonBOX-
Click to expand...

There are two potential limitations at play: (1) non pro Nvidia GPUs can't do bidirectional PCIe, and (2) lack of OS support. Issue (1) will slow down performance when using the built in display. Issue (2) can stop the whole thing from working. I'm still waiting for info on what is the exact situation.

GPUs are useful for many people - it's not just the gaming and video rendering community anymore. The computer vision community has embraced them tremendously - Caffe, TensorFlow, and other related frameworks benefit enough from GPU acceleration that folks I know have built systems with 4x Titan X in them. eGPUs would help a lot due to lowering barrier of entry for people that want to learn and play around with the tools - a lot easier to plug one in than to build a dedicated machine for these use cases. Hell, Nvidia even advertises Deep Learning & AI on their site now - I hope the community convinces them to take eGPUs seriously and continue developing drivers for OS X.

It's not really worth the time to debate, but just for reference, this is their third generation of product. Not to say that everything will work without a hitch or you won't have to install things, but I'm fairly confident that it does work and work well even. I personally don't believe that they are based off the same product. As the previous gen of Akitio didn't work out of the box either, whereas the Bizon did. Part of that of course is the powersupply. Bizon guarantees that it works in OSX otb. Akitio makes no such claim.
But like I say, this isn't really worth debating. Unless we have someone actually disassemble and check both it's not empirical. However, I personally don't think they are.
Buy what suits you.

Ref: https://support.bizon-tech.com/hc/e...onnect-my-BizonBOX-and-configure-it-properly-
Click to expand...

I hope you're right - I need to take another look at their stuff. If their product gets me an eGPU with a working CUDA driver on OS X, I'm very interested.
 
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If I can hook up a high end GPU to a MBP next year, I will dump my PC tower permanently.

Edit: I see that the Rzaer Core works under BootCamp and WIn10.

Tower is going bye bye.
 
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