Need more....Speed!

I

InorganicMatter

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
15,461
I'm currently running this:
http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/cPath/78_76/products_id/268

It is slower than molasses in January, and I have 110% determined that the fault lies with the processor. I tried more RAM, no difference. I tried a faster HD, no difference. I tried the same setup in a P3, huge improvement. I'm running Clarkconnect in standalone mode, Squid, Dansguardian. The board I have now has a 600 MHz Eden processor. What would be faster? Is Eden the best architecture VIA offers? Will more megahertz help? I'm sure the new Luke processors are fast, but I'm not willing to pay more than $200 for a board right now. Suggestions?
 
Via's C3 / C7 are Winchips. The Winchip is an extremely simple processor with extremely low performance per clock.

For comparison: the Winchip has a single integer pipeline, and single floating-point pipeline. the P3 you tested has dual integer and dual floating-point pipelines, plus a larger, more efficient L2 cache to feed it. Almost every processor on the market is more efficient in terms of performance / watt than the Via C3 / C7, and that is why the performance sucks at low power consumption.

The Via Eden platform is only good for people who MUST have the lowest power consumption, or need something small. Otherwise, it isn't really worth the cash.

I mean, sure, you can get a faster Via C7 fanless processor, as fast as 1.2 GHz, but it will cost you a pretty penny.

If you really want more speed with low power, and aren't picky about SIZE, do the following:

Pick up a CHEAP Socket 754 motherboard and the cheapest 90nm Sempron you can lay hands on. This will cost you way less than the 1.2 GHz fanless I linked above

If you want to run with only a single low-speed 120mm exhaust fan (no need for a processor fan): undervolt the Sempron to 1.0v and find the fastest speed the processor will run at. Most Venice cores will do as high as 1.5 GHz on 1.0v. This will be about 4-5 times faster than your current Eden.

If you want to run FANLESS: drop the voltage to 0.8 or 0.9v if you can, and clock it areound the 1.0-1.2 GHz mark. At this voltage, the processor uses well less than 10w, even at max load, and can be cooled with a large passive sink.
 
defaultluser said:
If you really want more speed with low power, and aren't picky about SIZE <snip>
Click to expand...
Yep, that's exactly why I'm using VIA :p

So you're telling me I'm SOL? Darnit...
 
How about a P-M locked at 1ghz or so?

Or the sempron idea is a pretty good one too.
 
lithium726 said:
How about a P-M locked at 1ghz or so?

Or the sempron idea is a pretty good one too.
Click to expand...
But can I get either of those at an economic price in the tiny mITX footprint?
 
Well, you could search out an Intel Shelton. Cacheless 1Ghz chip based on a Banias Pentium-M core and on a board that's 17cm x 19cm, a bit larger than ITX. They were also well under $100. Problem is the supply is pretty much gone.
 
widefault said:
Well, you could search out an Intel Shelton. Cacheless 1Ghz chip based on a Banias Pentium-M core and on a board that's 17cm x 19cm, a bit larger than ITX. They were also well under $100. Problem is the supply is pretty much gone.
Click to expand...
Hey, thanks for your suggestion. Check out what I found:

http://www.kontron-emea.com/index.php?id=226&cat=61&productid=1336
http://www.kontron-emea.com/index.php?id=226&cat=61&productid=297
http://www.kontron-emea.com/index.php?id=226&cat=61&productid=504

How would the second one (Cacheless 800MHz Celeron) perform compared to my current VIA?
 
Can't say for sure, but the 1GHz Shelton runs pretty much the same as a PIII at the same speed, so I'd imagine the 800MHz chip would be pretty close to a PIII-800. Compare that to the Via, and I'd imagine double the performance wouldn't be too far off.

Only thing is the Kontron boards are expensive, really expensive. Most of the mini-ITX boards I've seen with the Shelton cores are in the $400+ range right now. The original Intel Shelton is a stripped down board, just the basics.
 
widefault said:
Can't say for sure, but the 1GHz Shelton runs pretty much the same as a PIII at the same speed, so I'd imagine the 800MHz chip would be pretty close to a PIII-800. Compare that to the Via, and I'd imagine double the performance wouldn't be too far off.

Only thing is the Kontron boards are expensive, really expensive. Most of the mini-ITX boards I've seen with the Shelton cores are in the $400+ range right now. The original Intel Shelton is a stripped down board, just the basics.
Click to expand...

No way in hell the 800 MHz cacheless cores will perform as well as a PIII 800.

You obviously missed out on the Celermine. With half the L2 cache (and half the cache bandwidth), it was much slower than a PIII of the same clock speed. It was still a good deal because almost every one of them overclocked to 100 MHz bus, but the processor you're looking to buy has NO L2 cache.

Given the pitiful bus, the only way to keep the PIII well fed is the large high-bandwidth 256K cache.

The cacheless Celeron 266 and 300 cores performed about 40% worse than the 512k cache PII cores in everything except certain games, so expect the same ratio here. That would put it at about the speed of a PIII 400-500. Faster, but not much.

Really, if you need more performance, but you need the small form factor, shell out the cash for the board I linked to, it is around $270, but you'll get a little better than twice the peformance for it. Like I said, if you need the MiniITX form factor, you'll have to pay out the ass for performance.
 
defaultluser said:
No way in hell the 800 MHz cacheless cores will perform as well as a PIII 800.
Click to expand...
Well, I actually HAVE a Shelton, so naysay if you want. The 400MHz bus and faster memory makes up a lot for the lack of cache. The Shelton, being based on the Banias Pentium-M, is generations ahead of the old cachless Celerons of 7 years ago.

From what I've seen, other than bus speed and power improvements, the C7 isn't a whole lot better. Faster at the same clock? Yes. In the same league as a PIII/Athlon/Sempron/etc at the same speed? Not even close.
 
InorganicMatter said:
How much faster is the C7 compared to the C3? What do you think of this:

http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/cPath/78_76/products_id/540

It's the newer revision (faster?), and a higher clock speed. Also cheaper than that one you linked to. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The C7 is a C3 with an improved bus and double the L2 cache. From what I've seen, performance is improved around %10-20, clock-for-clock. The improved bus and cache were much needed, but it's not as if this is a monster of a performer.

It's not passive, so if you must have that you're looking at the wrong board. Otherwise, you're set.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I wonder if that board plays nice with Linux...
Click to expand...

I get the impression from reviews that it is messy unless you go with EpiOS, a distro tuned for the Via C3 / C7 boards. Not sure how functional EpiOS is, but you ought to give it a look.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I would in a heartbeat. Care to show me a mITX case and board to put that Turion in?
Click to expand...
I know albatron was showing off a miniITX s754 board at computex... might wanna check out anandtech
 
Use a S754 with a 25w LT cpu and it will be better then anything this has to offer by about 100 times.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I'm currently running this:
http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/cPath/78_76/products_id/268

It is slower than molasses in January, and I have 110% determined that the fault lies with the processor. I tried more RAM, no difference. I tried a faster HD, no difference. I tried the same setup in a P3, huge improvement. I'm running Clarkconnect in standalone mode, Squid, Dansguardian. The board I have now has a 600 MHz Eden processor. What would be faster? Is Eden the best architecture VIA offers? Will more megahertz help? I'm sure the new Luke processors are fast, but I'm not willing to pay more than $200 for a board right now. Suggestions?
Click to expand...


PM me. Logic Supply is a great place but their prices can be a little high sometimes. I have access to all of Jetway's Mini-ITX offerings. I can definately hook you up. I have plenty of references you can check.

-Boxcar
 
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