MSI Z77A-GD65 & SSD Caching

[MrCaffeineX]

I am trying to set up the following, if possible:

Dual-boot installation of Windows 7 Ultimate 32-bit and 64-bit
SSD-Caching with a Crucial M4 64GB SATA III SSD split in half, accelerating a
Seagate 500GB SATA III HDD also split in half on a
MSI Z77A-GD65 motherboard

Is this configuration even possible and if so, is there anyone out there that can assist me in getting it to function properly?

I have reasearched the SSD-caching features and have had some experience with them on my other system which utilized the same SSD/HDD arrangement with a Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H-B3 motherboard. Setup with that system was surprisingly easy: install Windows, install drivers, install Intel Rapid Storage Technology software, and then configure the SSD-caching. It is not that easy with the MSI motherboard.

So far, I have attempted to get SSD-caching working via a Windows 7 Ultimate 32-bit installation. When I attempt to install Intel's RST software, the installer notifies me that the system does not support RST. I then did what I should have done in the first place and consulted the user manual, which instructed me that for this motherboard, I would need to set the SATA operation mode to RAID in the BIOS. I did that and attempted to re-install Windows 7 Ultimate 32-bit, but the Windows installer is unable to find any hard drives. I attempted to have the Windows installer load any necessary drivers from the motherboard driver disc, but it could not find any. I then downloaded the drivers from Intel's website, which the Windows installer accepted, but still could not find any hard drives.

I did some searching and came across this thread: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684542 but the instructions did not work. If I change the Registry entry, Windows is unable to locate the hard drive when it attempts to boot. There does not appear to be an executable form of the driver which he mentions anywhere on the motherboard driver disc, nor do the drivers available on the Intel website seem to address the issue.

The other options that I have are to install Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit on the SSD entirely, with 32-bit going onto the HDD, which would likely work, but will not accelerate 32-bit, or wait until I can afford a 128GB+ SSD and install them on two partitions. The Gigabyte system was much easier and didn't require that I manage what I was storing where to the extent that a 64GB SSD or split 128GB+ SSD with native installation(s) would...

 

[swatX]

Did you click on Intel Rapid Start Technology and click on "enable" under MSI Settings in bios?

 

[MrCaffeineX]

No, I did not. I must have missed that part in the manual. I'm going to try it now and let you know how it goes. Thanks for the reply as well!

 

[Skripka]

Before you installed Windows, did you have the UEFI set to RAID mode or AHCI or IDE?

 

[Q1DM6]

I'm confused as to why you're wanting to install both 32bit and 64bit anyway.

 

[MrCaffeineX]

I do some consulting work for a company running some older bookkeeping software that will not run on any 64-bit version of Windows. It also does not get along with VMWare for some reason. It runs terribly slow in a 32-bit VM on a 64-bit host. I was also thinking it might be nice to dust off a couple of my older games that will not play on 64-bit versions of Windows regardless of compatibility settings.

 

[MrCaffeineX]

Before you installed Windows, did you have the UEFI set to RAID mode or AHCI or IDE?

The first time that I installed Windows I had the SATA operation in the BIOS set to AHCI. After the Intel RST software would not install I realized it was not going to be as simple as it was on my Gigabyte motherboard and went through the manual. There are only two pages detailing SSD-caching in the manual and the instructions therein did not work.

Did you click on Intel Rapid Start Technology and click on "enable" under MSI Settings in bios?

I tried that and the software still will not install. I cannot boot the existing installation unless the SATA operation is set to AHCI and the Windows installer still does not recognize the hard drives if the SATA operation is set to RAID. This is supposed to accelerate my system, not make me waste so much time configuring...

 

[Skripka]

The first time that I installed Windows I had the SATA operation in the BIOS set to AHCI. After the Intel RST software would not install I realized it was not going to be as simple as it was on my Gigabyte motherboard and went through the manual. There are only two pages detailing SSD-caching in the manual and the instructions therein did not work.



I tried that and the software still will not install. I cannot boot the existing installation unless the SATA operation is set to AHCI and the Windows installer still does not recognize the hard drives if the SATA operation is set to RAID. This is supposed to accelerate my system, not make me waste so much time configuring...

There was a review on Guru3D, where to get SRT working HDD mode needed to be set to RAID before Windows was installed.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-maximus-iv-gene-z-review/3

 

[MrCaffeineX]

There was a review on Guru3D, where to get SRT working HDD mode needed to be set to RAID before Windows was installed.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-maximus-iv-gene-z-review/3

The problem with setting the SATA operation to RAID is that the Windows installer cannot recognize the hard drive, even after loading the additional driver. I tried the driver from MSI's website for this motherboard and the one from Intel's website for this chipset with no luck in either case. I don't know if it will matter or not, but there is a newer version of the BIOS available on MSI's website for this motherboard. I'm in the process of flashing that now and will attempt to run the installers again afterward to see if anything works.

 

[MrCaffeineX]

Updating the BIOS did not help, which I figured would be the case. With the SATA operation set to RAID the Windows installer still does not see any hard drives (there is only the 500GB drive connected currently, as the instructions say) and it is connected to SATA port 1, which is one of the two Intel SATA III ports on this motherboard. I attempted to manually load the driver from MSI's website, the driver from Intel's website, the driver that I found buried on the driver disc and I even unchecked "Hide drivers that are not compatible with hardware on this computer." in the Windows installer, then proceeded to load everything with RAID in the title, but still no success. I guess we'll see if MSI's technical support has gotten any better since the last time I attempted to deal with them...

 

[swatX]

You have to use the ACHI mode as you are not running RAID.

Also another option is to install Windows 64 bit and then install virtualbox which is free. Just run a virtual machine that has windows 32bit.

 

[MrCaffeineX]

You have to use the ACHI mode as you are not running RAID.

Also another option is to install Windows 64 bit and then install virtualbox which is free. Just run a virtual machine that has windows 32bit.

The instructions specifically state that the SSD-caching will only work if the SATA operation is set to RAID. As for the second part, I always forget that VirtualBox is out there. I've gotten so used to using VMWare I tend not to use anything else. I should work on that in the future...

 

[JRS]

MrCaffeineX - Are your attempting to install with a Win 7 image that has SP1? If not, having SP1 might help for RAID mode not seeing drives problem. My P5QDeluxe gave me fits getting RAID drivers installed and that was before SP1. The SB box I built for my wife and my IB box (both Asrock MBs) I just set to RAID and installed Win 7 x64 ultimate without a hitch.

Since Intel SSD caching targets an entire drive (not a partition), if you get the caching to work, it ought to work for a dual boot setup provided both OS's support the Intel RST and are on the same drive.

Another approach would be the third party caching, but that has a number of downsides, the first obviously is the additional cost, the second the big unknown if those will work with a dual boot.

Even if you could get the caching to work, I think you ought to revisit the virtual machine idea. If your bookkeeping software doesn't like VMWare, try MS Virtual PC or VirtualBox.

Edited to add: Only because I've done things myself like this do I ask... but are you sure you are connected to the Intel SATA ports?

Edited again to ask: You mentioned that the software ran real slow in a VM, was the VM on a single regular hard drive and was this the same physical disk that has the host boot partition?

 

[MrCaffeineX]

I finally got it working!

I called MSI and after a not terrible hold time, I was able to speak with a representative who e-mailed me the instructions (he actually e-mailed me two links to two different sites, not MSI-related, with Intel RST configuration instructions). Thankfully, he admitted that the instructions in the manual are in fact wrong! That led me to some good ol' fashioned trial and error troubleshooting.

To sum it up, I got it working by toying around in the BIOS with both drives connected at the same time (this is where the instructions in the manual are incorrect as they state to keep the SSD unplugged until after the OS installation is completed with SATA operation in RAID mode). For the hell of it, I entered the Intel RAID configuration utility and assigned the SSD and HDD to a RAID array, which resulted in several errors. Then I deleted the RAID array and the next time that I went to install Windows, the HDD showed up in the list. 32-bit installed without issue and I then installed 64-bit without issue on the HDDs second partition. I installed the drivers and RST on both partitions and now I am finishing up Windows updates on 64-bit.

I will let you know of the performance after it has been running for a bit. I am not sure how the system identifies the files which belong to which partition. Does anyone know if there will be an issue if each partition has a file cached with the same name?

As far as the virtual machines are concerned, I'm going to give VirtualBox a try and see how the software reacts in it. In VMWare I suspect it has something to do with the software being rather dated (it actually sits on top of an Access '97 database and will not work with any of the newer versions of Office in addition to being limited to 32-bit OSes). My previous experience with VirtualPC did not turn out particularly well. Several of the companies that I work with use VMWare, plus I have taken half a dozen courses utilizing VMWare, so it is definitely the virtualization software I am most familiar with. VirtualBox looks rather straight-forward and now that I think of it, I might have it installed on my Mac from when I was toying with Parallels alternatives.

Thanks again for the replies. I admit that I'm not the best when it comes to working with these damn computers, but I know I'm not the worst, which just made the experience that much more frustrating...

 

[JRS]

...

I will let you know of the performance after it has been running for a bit. I am not sure how the system identifies the files which belong to which partition. Does anyone know if there will be an issue if each partition has a file cached with the same name?
...

From a few bits and pieces that I've read, the Intel SSD caching is better described as an odd kind of striping (and not just a simple file cache), hence why the BIOS has to be in RAID mode. File names should have no impact. I'm using the Intel SSD caching on a data drive that I have hosting some of my VMs but it is too early to tell how much the SSD caching helps as I'm not in those particular VMs that often. The ones I use the most are on my boot SSD.

I do a ton in virtual machines, mostly all VMWare these days and I find it a bit odd you have something so dated yet runs slow in a VM. For older 32bit apps, I've stuck to WinXP for a 32bit VM OS - if you haven't, maybe try it instead of Win 7 for your app and see if that helps the performance.

 

[grambo]

Access 97 DB? I think you need to have a chat with that client and convince them to allow you to modernize their systems for a few thousand bucks, that is nuts!

 

[swatX]

When you use virtual box, after you install everything just make to install the guest tools to get the optimal performence. A lot of people forget about it.

 

[MrCaffeineX]

I wish it was that simple to get companies to understand the value of staying up-to-date with software. Even staying in the same decade would be a good start...

A lot of the companies that I work with run their software and hardware well beyond its useful life. Has anyone else noticed how difficult it is to find SATA I hard drives that can be recognized by first-generation controllers? That's what I deal with on a daily basis. On the plus side, it keeps me busy and pays some bills, so there is a market there.

I understand that not all companies have the money to keep up with technology, but a lot of them seem to take cheap to the extreme. Of course, in some cases, like the software that requires Access '97, the company shelled out something in the neighborhood of $150,000.00 for it and I can see why they may want to drag their feet. In a lot of other cases, they have been convinced that maintaining ten year old hardware is cheaper than buying new.

I hear the same thing from end-users that are convinced that buying used hardware is always a better deal because it costs less than new hardware. So I let them go wherever it is that they go and buy their used hardware and I get to listen to them complain again in a couple months when the thousand dollar laptop they bought off of someone on Craigslist for $50 needs $400 in repairs. I should probably start recording the conversations and putting them up on Youtube for some other people to share in the laughs...

 

[GotNoRice]

The first time that I installed Windows I had the SATA operation in the BIOS set to AHCI. After the Intel RST software would not install I realized it was not going to be as simple as it was on my Gigabyte motherboard and went through the manual.

SSD caching only works when the controller is set to RAID in the bios. This is the same on Z68 and Z77 motherboards. If you used SSD caching on your Z68, then that means it was set to RAID also. It's not more complicated on the Z77.

To sum it up, I got it working by toying around in the BIOS with both drives connected at the same time (this is where the instructions in the manual are incorrect as they state to keep the SSD unplugged until after the OS installation is completed with SATA operation in RAID mode).

Actually keeping the SSD unplugged when you first do your install is good practice. If your SSD is plugged in and ahead of your main hard drive in the boot order that will usually result in files being placed on the SSD that are necessary for windows to boot. Then when you perform the next step and use the SSD as cache, during which the drive is formatted, all of a sudden your system won't boot. It's simpler to have the SSD unplugged during initial setup.

It sounds like one or both of your drives were still setup in caching configuration from your previous motherboard. Creating the ghetto raid array stripped away that information after which the drive behaved normally. You should have disabled caching on your old system prior to disassembly.

 

[MrCaffeineX]

SSD caching only works when the controller is set to RAID in the bios. This is the same on Z68 and Z77 motherboards. If you used SSD caching on your Z68, then that means it was set to RAID also. It's not more complicated on the Z77.

The difference was that on the Gigabyte motherboard you did not have to set the options ahead of time, thereby removing the step with the MSI motherboard, which is what started the confusion. You simply install the OS and then the Gigabyte RST installer package did the rest behind-the-scenes.

It sounds like one or both of your drives were still setup in caching configuration from your previous motherboard. Creating the ghetto raid away stripped away that information after which the drive behaved normally. You should have disabled caching on your old system prior to disassembly.

It was disabled prior to disassembling the old system, but I suspect that either some information remained or there was something in the configuration on the new motherboard that was interfering. It was an open-box deal, so I reset the BIOS before going through the rest of the setup just in case, though I still had some issues initially. At least it is all working now and it is definitely benefiting from the caching. It now takes less time to boot Windows than it does for POSTing on this board. All-in-all it is about 25 seconds from power-on to being able to use Windows, down from over a minute with just the HDD by itself. Program launches feel snappy too.