The only real way Linux could be classed as fragmented is if you run several distro's at once. Pick one distro, make it a popular one and learn it well and there is no fragmentation.
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Microsoft Is Putting Windows on the Back Burner
- Thread starter Megalith
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The only real way Linux could be classed as fragmented is if you run several distro's at once. Pick one distro, make it a popular one and learn it well and there is no fragmentation.
M76
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Sorry, but that there are software suites for example Autocad that are only available on windows is not my opinion it is fact.
What are you talking about? There was a time when I used software that was only available on linux. Change is inconvenient, change costs time, and resources that I'd rather not spare. But this is purely academic, I couldn't switch to linux however I wanted to because of the mentioned reasons.
That's irrelevant. When linux is capable or even more suited to handle a job I use it. Like I've set up multiple centos servers in the past few years for various purposes. I do oversee a linux server at the moment as well. That I inherited against my will which was set up with ubuntu by some fool, completely inappropriate for the task.
Assumptions are dangerous, especially baseless ones. MS extorting money? What? I wish our company was big enough to be on the radar of MS. This has nothing to do with MS, it has to do with the fact that the manufacturer of the €500.000 mapping system has made most of the software for it for windows. You expect us to just replicate the software that the HW manufacturer has developed over a decade for the sole reason to be able to move to linux completely? Most of that software is proprietary. Even if it was possible to replicate it would take years and a huge development budget and an experienced dev team. Probably costing more than 500.000 in the end.
"hand made by robots" You are not serious right? Until it comes calling? I thought I was supposed to drop everything and install linux right now.
For deep learning to work it needs to observe hundreds of thousands if not millions of samples to get the results just in the same ballpark. You cannot replicate operational software that way. It works with putting faces on video footage because it is not an exact science. It just has to look good enough to pass.
Similarly to jpeg compression for example, you can never get back the full data from it, but it is close enough so it passes human eyeball inspection.
I know Einstein has a quote attributed to him and I'm paraphrasing it "a revolutionary idea ought to sound crazy at first", but that doesn't mean that every crazy ideas is a valid idea.
You don't need to rationalize what is already rational.
I ran WinME until the end of support. I almost missed XP. For me XP was a minor improvement.
naib
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Why are places still using AutoCAD? Ancient software.. NX is what people are generally using, especially as it integrates with teamcentre.
Blahblahblah "changing software" . Where I work we are about to have another change in eCAD forced upon us engineers in 15years. It happens , be it because of contracts or capability...
NX supports Linux so there are professional mechanical cad packages.
I use AutoDesk Inventor... Its not available on linux. I've spent an education and over 15 years advancing my skills with this software.....
I would love to use linux at work, but I'm not going to throw away over a decade of experience for what amounts to no good reason.
*edit, i had to look up NX because I've never heard of it. NX is CAM software, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about in this regard.
Not that I want to get into this go around. (guess I just did sorry) I don't use CAD/CAM software I have seen plenty but would never claim to know a ton about the inner workings of one vs the other. Still from my xp doing jobs for a few manufacturing type folks there is plenty of *nix CAD/CAM software out there.. and autodesk is hardly a defacto bit of software anymore if it ever really was. I am as likely to see a mac/macbook on CAD types desktops as a PC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_NX
For the record though NX is CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM
I can't honestly say I have seen NX out and about a ton but I have seen it... but I mean I have seen things like Catia out and about as well. Which I know are super powerful but hardly common.
IMO (and it is an opinion) people holding autocad up as an example for regular people to stick with windows is as silly as people holding up photoshop. Both run on MACs so I guess the world should just switch to Apple ? Both are software that average people neither need nor understand. Saying I have 40 years of experience with autocad there for windows is the only viable main stream OS ever... is as silly as saying Catia runs almost always on custom *nix operating systems there for so should the entire world.
naib
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It is part of a complete PLM, get use to it and move with the times
I'm sure if the time came for software developers to port away from Windows they'd port to whatever OS you happen to be using at the time, Linux or not. The way people carry on, you'd think Windows was the only OS capable of running software.
KazeoHin
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This post is art.
Spaceninja
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With Apple basically abandoning their high end workstation I would say that Windows is the only viable option for those two particular applications. At least on the PC side you can upgrade when you want rather than when Apple says you can. There are different CAD packages out there, some better than others, I learned on AutoCAD back in the day so that is what I like. I do use Draftsight for 2D stuff on my Linux machine. It works great for basic tasks and they offer a non-commercial free license for Windows/Mac and Ubuntu/Redhad Linux based distros. The paid version offers 3D capabilities but I haven't purchased it so I can't comment on it's abilities.
Tha
The OS itself is becoming less and less relevant and MS knows it. Hell I swapped out 100 windows 7 machines for Chrome Boxes and the only thing people noticed was the new mice and keyboards, it was more than a week before they caught onto the change and it was because I forgot 1 app on the profile and one of the users tried to use the stand alone version from the website while waiting for me to install it.
Windows has always just been the delivery service to their core product range, Dynamics, SharePoint, Office, ... those have always been their bread and butter and still are and keeping those accessible to a wider audience is probably the best option for them.
t is what they are preparing for, they want you to have the option to use Microsoft services regardless if you are on iOS, Android, MAC, Linux, or other.
The OS itself is becoming less and less relevant and MS knows it. Hell I swapped out 100 windows 7 machines for Chrome Boxes and the only thing people noticed was the new mice and keyboards, it was more than a week before they caught onto the change and it was because I forgot 1 app on the profile and one of the users tried to use the stand alone version from the website while waiting for me to install it.
Windows has always just been the delivery service to their core product range, Dynamics, SharePoint, Office, ... those have always been their bread and butter and still are and keeping those accessible to a wider audience is probably the best option for them.
So it would be impossible to run under Linux?
Auto desk and Adobe are both working on web based versions of their software and their Citrix licensing is starting to be reasonable.
Spaceninja
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It really shouldn't be. I know AutoCAD doesn't run very well under Wine and I am sure there has been some research on the part of AutoDesk and Adobe that says it isn't worth their time to port the software to Linux. I am sure that both companies wanting to do away with perpetual licenses and go subscription have nothing to do with this decision.
If they can make those versions as full featured as the desktop application, what would stop them from turning it into an iOS or Android app? Once you strip away the requirements of the software to "HTML5 compliant Web Browser" it comes down to what size screen do you want to run it on?
Build a wall around it and make Windows great again!
No such thing as "Borked and unfixable" windows only machines that haven't been touched by someone who knows what they are doing. Nice try Linux.
Adobe has actually shown evidence of their suite running under Ubuntu.
If Windows 10 was to become a locked down ecosystem tomorrow or fade out of existence in 5 years time, I'm sure developers would port to Linux quick smart.
I can agree except for a couple things.
XP SP3 killed a bunch of our equipment because the control software would no longer work after the update.
Also you forgot NT4. Except for lack of support for USB and gaming it was a rock solid OS which everything after was based off of. 2K and up were all based on NT4 instead of 3.11 or 95. I had equipment that was controlled by NT4 workstations that ran for two or three years straight without rebooting, 2K could do that too, but XP would need a reboot every few months and W7 seems to need it quite often. Haven't used anything above W7 for equipment control because they are still working on making control software that works, Agilent is still selling new W7 boxes with some of the mass spectrometers we bought last year due to problems with making W10 work right.
Hagrid
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Why not work for MS. They could use your awesome skillz!
Spaceninja
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It wouldn't surprise me. Apple had OSX running on Intel chips for years before they finally moved off of the Power processors. If it isn't available to the public I would argue that it doesn't officially exist. If I had to wager the reason it isn't for sale it would be video driver issues or some part that doesn't work 100% correctly.
auntjemima
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Are you implying that you can fuck up a windows install without purposely doing it to the point that you cannot fix it?
Right on.
DejaWiz
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I didn't forget NT4...just didn't list it since it wasn't something I used as my home PC experiences.
Cool. I did use NT4 at home because I was learning it for work. At the time I had a quad boot PC setup with W95, NT4, Mandrake Linux and BeOS. I was playing around with all of them. Honestly BeOS was awesome and had everything beat on processor efficiency and video rendering, but financial problems killed the company just as Windows really took off.
It isn't bragging, any IT person worth their salt should be able to fix any windows machine that isn't intentionally sabotaged beyond help and or infested with hijack ware as a result of gross user negligence. Either way the only scenarios you can achieve a windows machine that cannot be repaired is through direct user fault. The post I was responding too implied that windows "just broke to the point of impossibility by itself", which is just a laughably absurd implication.
That said I would love to work for MS..or Google or just about any other major company like that..why? Not because I "love their products", but because I like getting paid well with extremely good benefits packages. So this whole nonsense that some of you like to spout of "Why not work for for X" just makes you come across as extremely immature and idealistic. I'm nearly 40, I don't have time for idealistic nonsense.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10startfresh
Not that I will deny its possible to clean up most terribly borked windows installs... that said. The fresh install is MS own suggestion for removing simple pre installed bloatware. Why clean up a pouched OS when a simple reinstall is so much faster cleaner and less hassle, its most MS folks suggested go to fix all.
My personal /home is never on my OS drive. After running properly setup Linux systems where I could at any time reinstall my OS and have everything back as it was in under 20min I couldn't imagine having to use Windows for anything important. Anyway I know this isn't a L v W thread... I digress.
So true, I had the worst time getting the main frame guys (and a few gals) to take my TRS-80 seriously. But then IBM brought out the PC and wow! suddenly home computers were serious.I worked for a large reseller in the early 80's.
Most companies didn't see Apple or TSR-80 computers as "real" computers, although they both had some success in small businesses.
IBM legitimized the PC in large companies, because where already buying IBM business products.
Much easier to get an IBM computer approved over something from a company that sold electronic hobby stuff or a little fruit company.
In 1981 I was asked, at a small college I was attending, to write a program to keep count of the students registering for classes on an hourly basis because the computer center on the main campus (a few hundred miles away) didn't get the info to them until the next morning by courier. So I wrote a very simple program that took advantage of the fact that the course number system mirrored the number of sectors on a floppy disk so all I had to do was enter the course numbers and the computer would do a +1 and I could print out the running totals as needed. On the second day it seemed my totals and the ones that came back from the main frame were different. Of course nobody believed the TRS-80 was right and the main frame wrong, but after proving I was right (by hand counting for one course) it turned out (after much denial and a long chat explaining how simple my system was) that they were mixing registrations from the main campus into our campus. So for nearly a week I had the only accurate count, it was very funny.
Of course it is their suggestion. MS support is aimed at end users, not people who know what they are doing. Reinstalling windows is with rare exception the lazy and uneducated way of dealing with windows problems. Sure it might only take 20 mins to reinstall the OS, but reinstalling everything else is another story. Very few people are going to be like us and have a disaster recovery image. For most people reinstalling the OS means massive time and data loss. That is why I have absolutely resented "Techs" over the years who use reinstalling windows as their primary means of repairing end users PC's. Sure it is faster, but it is also lazy and doesn't consider that 90% of people are going to be forced to endure hours of installing and patching once you leave of their other programs. That kind of time and data loss to me from someone claiming to be a PC tech is inexcusable. I've been repairing PC's for 25 years now and after who knows how many thousands of machines, I've still only ever had 2 machines where it was a total loss and I had no other choice but to clean install. It has been such a rarity that if I am forced to do that, I don't charge for that service.
I have two test machines in the lab and they both get reset, periodically. I have not cataloged the number of times, but I would say it has been happening about 1 every two months, or so. Takes about 20 minutes to get them reconfigured back to the state we need them in. If you have ever been in the military, then the term "make-work" should be ringing in your ears about now.
M76
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Oh it is so easy for you people to just drop everything and switch to a completely unknown software, that might or might not be compatible with customer's demands. That's just not how a profit oriented workplace operates. If something works don't fuck with it, until it stops working.
If there was a government grant for a R&D project for a fully functional bells and whistles GIS and CAD environment for Linux I'd be on board.
But no company will allow you to experiment on their dime, if there is a proven way to handle something already. Especially if they invested into that software a great deal of money.
The Linux fanatics who think it's good for everything and everyone should drop whatever they're doing and start installing linux on every computer right away, are completely out of touch with reality.
We have been using BricsCad withj Linux. Pretty happy with it.
The keys to transitioning from Windows to Linux are;
1) Understanding how applications are used to solve problems in your environment.
2) Find replacement application in Linux which will serve to move the company forward. (this is the big one)
3) Training, training, and did I mention? Training!
I have been working to transition the company to Linux and have been successful, so far. I started with the simple users. The ones who use Office applications. They were easy as there are knock-offs of Office available for Linux. For the rest of the company, I already have a list of applications which will work for them. Some are going to require more training than others.
Turns out, training small groups, at a time, is making it easier to transition. Word spreads through the company and people are actually getting excited about the transition due to the successes so far.
You have to quell the immediate resistance to change (the "Windows is the only thing that works!" type attitudes). Getting some successes under your belt makes it easier and spreads a positive message through the company.
The impetus to migrate has been driven by the issues we have with Windows 10 and how Microsoft has been pulling every trick in the book to get people to migrate away from Windows 7, including tossing all the telemetry updates at Windows 7. Management no longer trusts Microsoft to do the right thing for business (took them long enough).
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naib
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Was it easy? no... the fucking eCAD design library had to be ported over... the quirks of hte schematic capturing had to be figured out BECAUSE while any competent design engineer can use any package provide as conceptually they all do the same THEY do not do everything EXACTLY the same and this takes a hit on productivity..
This isn't even on linux... This is windows as corporate decide to change from Cadence to Mentor to Altium ALL because higher management make corporate deals. Did the previous work? yes I have products designed in the field. Do the new software work? yes I have product designed in the field. Will a new switch work? sure I am a design engineer and I adapt. Should I have to? no But it isn't my decision so stop being naive that you can just sit on something till the end of time.
The mechanical design team use to use AutoCAD but they switched to NX quite some time ago...
All this on windows. This occur's in the windows world, this was done because of corporate deal to drive profits, integration with acquisitions NOT even considering that what is being used could work on linux (Altium doesn't but I don't use linux at work so that is moot at the moment)
Applications constantly change, the OS changes... your customer may change and you must align. This is the reality if you operate in an organisation with over 30,000 engineers... Get over it, stuff changes. Are you still using WindowsBOB? no so STFU with your utopian view that everything should just stay the same if it work YET also advocating changing to windows10
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DeathFromBelow
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I recall being told that change was necessary when we complained about Microsoft fucking with the basic Windows UI and start menu.
Spaceninja
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Or Microsoft doesn't want it to happen....
That was probably true in the Balmer and Gates days. I am sure Nadella couldn't care less who ports what software to what system. He is all about the cloud and hosted services.
Open office and libre office are garbage in an enterprise environment. Sorry those aren't real alternatives for non small businesses.
naib
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year on year MS have seen a 10% increase in linux VM on their Azures platform and they expect it to be 50% this year. I think MS are waking up to this and that is good. They have invested billions globally in datacentres and as long as they have an income why should they care what runs on it
The portions we need from Office (Word and Excel) work fine for us. Open Office is a dead end as it appears it is no longer being develeoped. Never had a need for the other parts of office. I should have clarified that. If we had a need for Powerpoint or Access we would look at other applications.
Works fine for us..us being the operative word here. I've been in businesses where the free alternatives worked fine, but most of them they don't. The point was that blanket generalizations are generally wrong. This notion that free office alternatives are equal to office is just wrong. It is fine for some users, but that still doesn't make it equivalent to office. I'm glad it works for you, but it doesn't work for me in any enterprise environment I've ever worked in and because I am a very advanced user it doesn't work for me personally. Couple that with the format compatibility issues that exist to this day where something as simple as a resume isn't translated to the correct format and it is just an all around bad suggestion. I cannot even begin to count the number of resumes I've thrown out over the years because the candidate couldn't be bothered to convert to a format everyone else uses and their resume opens up as a jumbled mess. I don't care what format I get it in, so long as the person has taken the steps necessary to ensure anyone with with a standard corporate install can open it. I don't have free alternatives installed, I'm not going to install free alternatives and if it isn't in a format office or Adobe can read..I'm not reading it. That is just one small example of many of the problems of free office alternatives.
heatlesssun
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But if one wants to run Libre Office and MS Office side by side (I do on some personal devices) it is an option with Windows or macOS. Almost all of the interesting alternative software out there is Windows compatible. Most Libre Office users are using it ironically on Windows.
The desktop software ecosystem of Windows is the best and until something truly can replace this ecosystem be it desktop Linux, web or cloud or something else entirely many will stick with Windows simply because of the applications support.