"Why I’m uninstalling Windows 8" Article

[Numan]

Less stuff on screen, more steps = slow.

It is strange how nobody sane says "hey this Windows 8 GUI is better!" it's all "It's just as good as 7". Then why bother at all?

You referred to the 'old' being Desktop, which is just as snappy if not snappier than Win7's Desktop. Don't twist...

If moving your mouse a little more is that much of a productivity loss, increase your DPI/speed settings. If you cannot click giant squares because they are not smaller squares, seek a psychiatrist because it's a learning/adaption issue, possibly OCD.

I've seen improvements in 8 over 7. Easily enough to spend $40 and $15 (my new laptop qualifies and no it's not touch screen all over the place) The Desktop (where I've stated many times is where I mostly live) has improvements I like, the Start Screen I actually MISS now that I'm back on Win7 with my new laptop waiting for the official release of Win8 because of the updates the tiles provide and the Metro apps...meh. Some are fine, others are not. I'm sure they will get better/more of them in time.

 

[wonderfield]

Negative. It's like putting somebody in a car that has the stick shift between the seats instead of out of the steering column and the ignition is a button on the other side.

With hot corners, I'd say it's more like an invisible shift lever and an ignition switch under the seat. Move your key to the right spot and the switch slides up your seat. Move your hand toward the shift lever and it fades into view. This wouldn't be a problem if users were given a reasonably good tutorial on how to use the hot corners upon first boot, and what each corner does in what context, but the release version only tells the user that there are hot corners, and only visually details the Charms Bar. This is a pretty significant problem.

 

[maw]

So Windows cannot change. It must for always and forever remain the same? If that's the case the Metro is the least of Windows' problems.

There is a concept called "incremental change". It's where you gradually introduce new features to your product without completely upturning the user experience.

Look at products like Photoshop, I've been using it since version 4.0. The current UI is radically different from that earlier version, it supports technology that didn't exist back then, and it has 10x more features that those early versions. Each new version introduced something new while keeping most of the UI of the previous version, so that the transition to each new version was smooth and non-disruptive. Over time, the incremental changes amounted to a whole new interface, but along the way, the users were included in the process.

 

[Numan]

With hot corners, I'd say it's more like an invisible shift lever and an ignition switch under the seat. Move your key to the right spot and the switch slides up your seat. Move your hand toward the shift lever and it fades into view. This wouldn't be a problem if users were given a reasonably good tutorial on how to use the hot corners upon first boot, and what each corner does in what context, but the release version only tells the user that there are hot corners, and only visually details the Charms Bar. This is a pretty significant problem.

We all know the Start button brings up everybody's favorite full screen menu system of hate. We also know there's four corners so shoving the mouse in the corners will give visual cues. I have not see the RTM version in action, but there's a crapton of info out there thanks to Google.

Since the car thing is always the comparison; even a retarded valley girl can ask for help with her car that she knows nothing about. People will ask about their computer. And once you know, you know. It's not a huge deal going forward even if the tutorial sucks. I don't remember the 95/XP/Vista/7 ones being of any use.

 

[corrupted223]

I sometimes wish the end all argument would be "Windows 8 as is, customize it to oblivion, or GTFO" but a lot of people have issues with it even though they have EVERY right to utilize XP, 7, OS X, Linux, BSD or any other OS to their liking INSTEAD of Windows 8. Regardless we're stuck with infinitesimal bitching about.

I don't see anyone moving to Linux over this. They will just stick with Win7. Following the analogies that were used earlier, that would be like retiring your Corolla and using a horse drawn carriage for your commute to work. I like 8, mainly because I like trying new things, I will upgrade the wife's computer as soon as it is released as well. Thankfully she likes tech almost as much as me.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

I don't see anyone moving to Linux over this. They will just stick with Win7. Following the analogies that were used earlier, that would be like retiring your Corolla and using a horse drawn carriage for your commute to work. I like 8, mainly because I like trying new things, I will upgrade the wife's computer as soon as it is released as well. Thankfully she likes tech almost as much as me.

I have 8 on all systems at home. My wife avoids the start screen since she prefers pinned shortcuts in the taskbar. I switch back & forth between taskbar icons, the start screen, the "new" sidebar menu.

 

[maw]

Since the car thing is always the comparison; even a retarded valley girl can ask for help with her car that she knows nothing about. People will ask about their computer. And once you know, you know.

Great, can I forward all their questions to you then?

 

[chinesepiratefood]

Less stuff on screen, more steps = slow.

It is strange how nobody sane says "hey this Windows 8 GUI is better!" it's all "It's just as good as 7". Then why bother at all?

Windows 8 is better than Windows 7. Happy?

Also for the "as good as" claims, those are almost exclusively in reference to the start screen vs the start menu. I believe it is "as good as" the start menu for my uses. For others it will be better, others perhaps worse.

So...why do I think it is smart of Microsoft to do this despite me only finding the start screen "as good as" the start menu? Because it allows them to create a common interface and ecosystem across their devices in a way that does not adversely effect my use of any such device.

 

[wonderfield]

People will ask about their computer. And once you know, you know. It's not a huge deal going forward even if the tutorial sucks.

Yes, people will ask. I don't think that's any kind of excuse for the poor tutorial, though. "Eh, people will figure it out" is not the right approach to user interface design. Even if you absolutely adore Microsoft, I can't see where that becomes an acceptable thing.

 

[Numan]

Great, can I forward all their questions to you then?

Sure!

Meh we all have different tolerances. All these situations people get afraid of with Windows 8 and the computer illiterates I deal with everyday at work with XP, the OS that everybody was supposed to be good at by now. And no I'm not in IT/IS they just figured out I know how to use them and try to learn from them. To these guys, it's the "same shit different pile" as it could be any OS, they are older, fear computers and have this weird disregard to trying to remember anything you show them as if it's not important.

 

[Numan]

Yes, people will ask. I don't think that's any kind of excuse for the poor tutorial, though. "Eh, people will figure it out" is not the right approach to user interface design. Even if you absolutely adore Microsoft, I can't see where that becomes an acceptable thing.

But they ask now for XP related things. Did XP even have a tutorial now that I think of it? I sure didn't see it after countless installs in the past 10 years. Is it a valid excuse? Probably not but they're consistent?

People figured out clown bars with blue and red X's, people will figure out pastelly backgrounds and tiles *shrug*

 

[DeathPrincess]

You referred to the 'old' being Desktop, which is just as snappy if not snappier than Win7's Desktop. Don't twist...

If moving your mouse a little more is that much of a productivity loss, increase your DPI/speed settings. If you cannot click giant squares because they are not smaller squares, seek a psychiatrist because it's a learning/adaption issue, possibly OCD.

I've seen improvements in 8 over 7. Easily enough to spend $40 and $15 (my new laptop qualifies and no it's not touch screen all over the place) The Desktop (where I've stated many times is where I mostly live) has improvements I like, the Start Screen I actually MISS now that I'm back on Win7 with my new laptop waiting for the official release of Win8 because of the updates the tiles provide and the Metro apps...meh. Some are fine, others are not. I'm sure they will get better/more of them in time.

Twist what? The "desktop" is now the start screen because that is the default screen. The desktop application is almost the same, it is no "snappier", there is zero performance benefit. The start up "boost" is like having a giant hibernation file, which is bad for SSDs in the long term, and is barely faster (and can't be switched off). The rest is pretty identical, apart from the stuff which is worse, like the additional audio lag and driver issues.

Why must all the stupid icons be giant, why can't I set an icon size, like you have been able to forever? I mean I wont ever be using a touch screen, or other inaccurate method, so having finger painting sized buttons is of no advantage to me. Why can't I set them all to say, desktop icon size and have 100+ on the screen at once? I am not a total glue moron, so finding something in a group of 100+ isn't really difficult or time consuming. This whole OS lack of customization is very anti consumer, and very dated in it's restrictive closed wall, closed GUI application.

Extra steps, however small is a productivity loss. If every action takes an extra second, then thats a few minutes lost every day, and a few hours lost a year. There is nobody spouting that Windows 8 increases productivity, because that is a lie too far. Attempts at insults were lame, don't bother next time.

$40 is the preorder deal with the bonus preorder DLC (which was a standard in Win7, now a paid extra). Another anti consumer activity. The metro applications have way too many ads in them, like the media ones (like Metro on the Xbox). They should cut that shit out now, or make it a free OS. The less people who buy this crap the better it shall be for everyone else. Send that shit back and ask for a refund for everyone elses sake.

 

[Numan]

Twist what? The "desktop" is now the start screen because that is the default screen. The desktop application is almost the same, it is no "snappier", there is zero performance benefit. The start up "boost" is like having a giant hibernation file, which is bad for SSDs in the long term, and is barely faster (and can't be switched off). The rest is pretty identical, apart from the stuff which is worse, like the additional audio lag and driver issues.[\QUOTE]

Um...the Start Screen is the Start Screen. The Desktop is the Desktop. The Start Screen is the default screen. There is a performance benefit. Update your chipset drivers if you're not seeing it. Hell I saw a big performance boost on the 8 year old Dell laptop of mine. All hard drives will crap out eventually, SSDs are not any different. I have seen some people post on here with audio lag but I've also see some report in that they had no issues either.
I remember simular things with every Windows release, some people have crappy hardware/driver combos. Nothing new.

Why must all the stupid icons be giant, why can't I set an icon size, like you have been able to forever? I mean I wont ever be using a touch screen, or other inaccurate method, so having finger painting sized buttons is of no advantage to me. Why can't I set them all to say, desktop icon size and have 100+ on the screen at once? I am not a total glue moron, so finding something in a group of 100+ isn't really difficult or time consuming. This whole OS lack of customization is very anti consumer, and very dated in it's restrictive closed wall, closed GUI application.

The Start Screen is your screen of pinned shortcuts, not EVERY shortcut. Yes I am aware it has issues if you install something and it tosses every shortcut on there. Remove them and you can right click to get at the list of everything. I'm sorry the icon sizes bother you that much. I haven't played with changing sizes or whatnot.

Extra steps, however small is a productivity loss. If every action takes an extra second, then thats a few minutes lost every day, and a few hours lost a year. There is nobody spouting that Windows 8 increases productivity, because that is a lie too far. Attempts at insults were lame, don't bother next time.

OCD! OCD! Sorry couldn't resist. Most people are too busy working rather than counting mouse seconds or clicks. This is a lame argument.

$40 is the preorder deal with the bonus preorder DLC (which was a standard in Win7, now a paid extra). Another anti consumer activity. The metro applications have way too many ads in them, like the media ones (like Metro on the Xbox). They should cut that shit out now, or make it a free OS. The less people who buy this crap the better it shall be for everyone else. Send that shit back and ask for a refund for everyone elses sake.

DLC? This isn't a game... I have yet to see an ad in things like Weather, RDP, Calender, Media player, etc.

 

[Tudz]

I sometimes wish the end all argument would be "Windows 8 as is, customize it to oblivion, or GTFO" but a lot of people have issues with it even though they have EVERY right to utilize XP, 7, OS X, Linux, BSD or any other OS to their liking INSTEAD of Windows 8.

The thing that drives the hatred is MS, for the most part, has a monopoly and drives the market. Yes, we can not use W8, but that doesn't change the fact W8 will drive the market just like every version of Windows has in the past.

 

[heatlesssun]

The start up "boost" is like having a giant hibernation file, which is bad for SSDs in the long term, and is barely faster (and can't be switched off). The rest is pretty identical, apart from the stuff which is worse, like the additional audio lag and driver issues.

Has anyone that really keeps harping on Windows 8 know anything about it? Yes this can be turned off. Go to Control Panel\Hardware and Sound\Power Options then click on "Change what the power buttons do" and then click on show the advanced settings and there it is at the bottom, first check box "Turn of fast startup." And as for being barely faster well that depends but it seems to make a noticeable different on most of the systems I've tried it on. As for the degradation, that's just guesswork and there's so many factors involved that there's no way to make a conclusive statement without a LOT of testing.

Why must all the stupid icons be giant, why can't I set an icon size, like you have been able to forever? I mean I wont ever be using a touch screen, or other inaccurate method, so having finger painting sized buttons is of no advantage to me. Why can't I set them all to say, desktop icon size and have 100+ on the screen at once? I am not a total glue moron, so finding something in a group of 100+ isn't really difficult or time consuming. This whole OS lack of customization is very anti consumer, and very dated in it's restrictive closed wall, closed GUI application.

These aren't just icons, they are titles that provide notifications and other kinds of information. There's rules about the size of the tiles so that apps can a predictable way of providing notifications in two different sizes and the regular sizing actually makes putting hundreds of them on the screen much more workable than any old size.

Extra steps, however small is a productivity loss. If every action takes an extra second, then thats a few minutes lost every day, and a few hours lost a year. There is nobody spouting that Windows 8 increases productivity, because that is a lie too far. Attempts at insults were lame, don't bother next time.

And how do you know that once a person is acquainted with Windows 8 that everything still takes extra time. Again, you'd have to do a lot of user studies to come to and realistic conclusion.

$40 is the preorder deal with the bonus preorder DLC (which was a standard in Win7, now a paid extra). Another anti consumer activity. The metro applications have way too many ads in them, like the media ones (like Metro on the Xbox). They should cut that shit out now, or make it a free OS. The less people who buy this crap the better it shall be for everyone else. Send that shit back and ask for a refund for everyone elses sake.

Media Center is included in the $40 upgrade pricing till January 31, 2013.

 

[maw]

Well, it seems no one on either side of the Windows 8 opinion camp is going to budge from their position. It will be interesting to see what the opinions are 6 months from now.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well, it seems no one on either side of the Windows 8 opinion camp is going to budge from their position. It will be interesting to see what the opinions are 6 months from now.

Yes it will. But it's not so much a matter of holding a position for me, it's a matter of looking at the product for it is and it seems that most people here are looking at it only form the only one perspective. Windows 8 is a pretty complex beast and it does things that most here simply haven't experienced.

I've said many times that Windows 8 may not be very well received on traditional PC hardware but that's not the point of Windows 8. I do believe that new hardware will be a much more important part of the Windows 8 story. That will not happen immediately but in time I believe it will. PCs are going to become smaller, more mobile, more battery efficient and there's going to be many tablets and touch devices simply because that seems to be where the market is going.

If the market was clamoring for more and more traditional PCs, people would be buying more and more traditional PCs and they simply aren't. if the traditional PC market were growing at a healthy rate tablets weren't growing at such an enormous rate than I'd be the first to say that Windows 8 is the wrong thing. It may indeed be the wrong thing but at least it does acknowledge that there care viable alternatives to traditional PCs for a lot of people these days. That is the most critical aspect of Windows 8.

 

[wonderfield]

But they ask now for XP related things. Did XP even have a tutorial now that I think of it?

Didn't really seem necessary, did it? It's essentially the same paradigm we've been using since Windows 95. "Your programs are accessible here". "You go here to shut down". "The Control Panel is accessible from this location". The Luna theme styled things differently, and XP re-organized the Start Menu (in its default configuration), but it was all essentially the same stuff. You did the same things in mostly the same way as you did them six years prior. Vista added Start Search. Windows 7 changed the way the taskbar operates (by default). These are relatively minor changes across a fourteen year period.

If you remember Windows 95, the first things you'd see when booting to the desktop was a welcome application that helped guide users through the UI changes. Windows 8 gives you an animation with an arrow and tells you to move your mouse into corners (what happens after that? That's up to you to figure out). There's a considerable difference here between the way Windows 95 eased users into the post-Program Manager era and the way Windows 8 eases users into the post-Start Menu era.

A certain amount of discovery is fine, but you can't argue that people spending ten minutes trying to find a way to shut their machines down is the right kind of discovery. It isn't in any way pleasant.

 

[THOMO]

A certain amount of discovery is fine, but you can't argue that people spending ten minutes trying to find a way to shut their machines down is the right kind of discovery. It isn't in any way pleasant.

In all seriousness, if it takes (has taken) anywhere near ten minutes for anyone on this forum to shut down their Win8 machine then they need serious tutoring .

 

[Monkey God]

In all seriousness, if it takes (has taken) anywhere near ten minutes for anyone on this forum to shut down their Win8 machine then they need serious tutoring .

I tried for about 5 minutes and gave up, went to Google to find the answer. Just one of many reasons why I won't be using W8 anytime soon. Its designed to be shut down via the power button, which is easily available on a tablet.

 

[Numan]

Didn't really seem necessary, did it? It's essentially the same paradigm we've been using since Windows 95. "Your programs are accessible here". "You go here to shut down". "The Control Panel is accessible from this location". The Luna theme styled things differently, and XP re-organized the Start Menu (in its default configuration), but it was all essentially the same stuff. You did the same things in mostly the same way as you did them six years prior. Vista added Start Search. Windows 7 changed the way the taskbar operates (by default). These are relatively minor changes across a fourteen year period.

If you remember Windows 95, the first things you'd see when booting to the desktop was a welcome application that helped guide users through the UI changes. Windows 8 gives you an animation with an arrow and tells you to move your mouse into corners (what happens after that? That's up to you to figure out). There's a considerable difference here between the way Windows 95 eased users into the post-Program Manager era and the way Windows 8 eases users into the post-Start Menu era.

A certain amount of discovery is fine, but you can't argue that people spending ten minutes trying to find a way to shut their machines down is the right kind of discovery. It isn't in any way pleasant.

*I* remember them fine. I am not phased with any of the Windows updates over the last 20 years and Win8 didn't throw me off either.

...it's my co-workers, those that everybody claims understand Windows as it was and how the new UI will make them not be able to function. They can barely function now! An XP tutorial would have saved me more hours!

 

[zero2dash]

IMHO I'm happy with the way [strike=]Explorer[/s] Windows already is and works; I don't feel like learning a new GUI just to cater to the whims of Microsoft. In that regard....unless things drastically change (and Win9 goes back to [strike=]Explorer[/s] a desktop with a Start menu again), it's a fair assumption that Windows 7 will be the last version of Windows that I ever install.

Anyone who likes this - by all means, have at it. I have no desire to waste my time with Win8.

 

[Veilrap]

IMHO I'm happy with the way Explorer already is and works; I don't feel like learning a new GUI just to cater to the whims of Microsoft. In that regard....unless things drastically change (and Win9 goes back to Explorer again), it's a fair assumption that Windows 7 will be the last version of Windows that I ever install.

Anyone who likes this - by all means, have at it. I have no desire to waste my time with Win8.

I don't understand what you mean by "go back to Explorer again". Windows 8 is a desktop Windows OS and has the same Windows explorer you know and love. (Granted it's been updated with some new functionality/aestetics, but every version of windows changes the explorer look a bit)

 

[KevinO]

While I have not played with Windows 8 that much there were some things I liked and some I did not. I can't say for sure whether I would lose productivity etc without giving it an honest try to learn and be open. Now I only installed /used the beta. My major annoyance was command prompt and utilities like that dropping to the "old" desktop.

I do not understand why I have to be dropped out of Metro to use command prompt. Don't ask me why that bothered me but just one of the things that stuck out. If you want me to use Metro then why do I have to drop out of it for certain applications? Now this is probably just my ignorance on the way Metro works and interfaces, but just had to give my observation on one thing that I did not like with what little I did play with it.

 

[MrCrispy]

So Windows cannot change. It must for always and forever remain the same? If that's the case the Metro is the least of Windows' problems.

Considering that neither one of us has seen much in the way of Metro apps or new hardware it's a difficult proposition to determine Windows 8's success at this point.

Its nothing anywhere near this difficult.

For the 100th time you keep repeating this, as if the only possible way for Windows to change is what we have now. There are a hundred ways MS could have made Win 8 just as touch enabled while also making it easy to use for desktop users.

I've mentioned many examples before - show chrome in Metro, don't make Metro apps fullscreen, don't show Metro controls on desktop (like file picker), have at least some consistency in the OS, have a unified task switcher, don't rely on arcane gestures which make zero sense on a desktop. Of course none of these have been answered.

Instead they simply ignored the desktop completely besides some token changes (multi monitor, ribbon in explorer) and made the theme uglier. Since the goal of Win 8 is to be a tablet OS first, is it any wonder people using it on a desktop hate it?

 

[zero2dash]

I don't understand what you mean by "go back to Explorer again". Windows 8 is a desktop Windows OS and has the same Windows explorer you know and love. (Granted it's been updated with some new functionality/aestetics, but every version of windows changes the explorer look a bit)

Yeah, in hindsight I should have just said Start menu/Desktop.

I like Metro in WP7; it works fine there.
I don't want it on my desktop though.

 

[Tudz]

For the 100th time you keep repeating this, as if the only possible way for Windows to change is what we have now. There are a hundred ways MS could have made Win 8 just as touch enabled while also making it easy to use for desktop users.

+1. I do tire of hearing the same argument repeated as if it's the only possible way MS could have done it.

Pushing desktop users to use Metro and removing the start button was far from the only way MS could have gone with it and there's a ton of options that wouldn't have annoyed anyone.

 

[heatlesssun]

For the 100th time you keep repeating this, as if the only possible way for Windows to change is what we have now. There are a hundred ways MS could have made Win 8 just as touch enabled while also making it easy to use for desktop users.

I'm not saying that they couldn't have taken a different path.

I've mentioned many examples before - show chrome in Metro, don't make Metro apps fullscreen, don't show Metro controls on desktop (like file picker), have at least some consistency in the OS, have a unified task switcher, don't rely on arcane gestures which make zero sense on a desktop. Of course none of these have been answered.

But what you're describing is nothing but a classic desktop UI.

Instead they simply ignored the desktop completely besides some token changes (multi monitor, ribbon in explorer) and made the theme uglier. Since the goal of Win 8 is to be a tablet OS first, is it any wonder people using it on a desktop hate it?

In time there may be more desktop orientation to Metro if it is indeed going to be a UI to replace the traditional desktop UI. This is only version 1.0 and it looks like Microsoft is going to move rapidly on improving it from the rumors floating around that I've seen with some saying that a developer preview on the update to Windows 8 coming out this November.

And again, if Windows 8 doesn't work for you and others I get that. But I do MORE with my Windows 8 machine than Windows 7. All of the productive stuff that I do works perfectly on Windows 8. All of the games work perfectly on Windows 7. It's just that tablets and touch work 1000 times better.

This is OS is just controversial and yes some people are going to have problems with it, some will love it especially with tablet and hybrid devices and quite honestly, just like Office 2007 and the ribbon, I think most people will adapt and figure it out or won't care. They'll see new apps, new hardware and enjoy the new stuff.

 

[Tudz]

All of the productive stuff that I do

Based on the sheer amount of time you spend here posting about how awesome W8 is I struggle to believe you do anything productive on a computer

 

[Wrench00]

Based on the sheer amount of time you spend here posting about how awesome W8 is I struggle to believe you do anything productive on a computer

+1 LOL

 

[MrCrispy]

I'm not saying that they couldn't have taken a different path.

Then why the inflammatory "So Windows cannot change. It must for always and forever remain the same? "

But what you're describing is nothing but a classic desktop UI.

No, its a UI that works well on touch and desktop both. The OS already detects if I have touch - if I don't there's no need to dumb down my UI.

In time there may be more desktop orientation to Metro if it is indeed going to be a UI to replace the traditional desktop UI. This is only version 1.0 and it looks like Microsoft is going to move rapidly on improving it from the rumors floating around that I've seen with some saying that a developer preview on the update to Windows 8 coming out this November.

And again, if Windows 8 doesn't work for you and others I get that. But I do MORE with my Windows 8 machine than Windows 7. All of the productive stuff that I do works perfectly on Windows 8. All of the games work perfectly on Windows 7. It's just that tablets and touch work 1000 times better.

This is OS is just controversial and yes some people are going to have problems with it, some will love it especially with tablet and hybrid devices and quite honestly, just like Office 2007 and the ribbon, I think most people will adapt and figure it out or won't care. They'll see new apps, new hardware and enjoy the new stuff.

You do more because you don't use a desktop pc. You are one of the few with a touch device so of course you like it, and you view everything from that perspective. For the hundreds of millions of people who won't have touch and don't care for it, all Win 8 does is slow them down and make life harder.

And please don't compare the ribbon - that was based on actual research to make the UI more efficient. Win 8 is based on designing the whole OS for tablet use only.

 

[heatlesssun]

Based on the sheer amount of time you spend here posting about how awesome W8 is I struggle to believe you do anything productive on a computer

Touché. Based on the sheer amount of factually wrong information and utter nonsense around here it's hard for me to believe that some of the more vitriolic Windows 8 opponents have used it do anything period, productive or otherwise.

 

[MrCrispy]

Touché. Based on the sheer amount of factually wrong information and utter nonsense around here it's hard for me to believe that some of the more vitriolic Windows 8 opponents have used it do anything period, productive or otherwise.

Who said posting on [H] isn't productive?

 

[Ur_Mom]

What I don't get is how you have to either love it or hate it. But, regardless, someone will say you're wrong. You can't have an opinion on why you don't like it. Some people find iOS very easy and efficient. I don't. Some people find Live Tiles and Windows 8 Start Screen very easy and efficient. It depends. Some people might not think so, and it's totally fine. But, others (myself included) really like it.

What works great for me may not fit your usage or your style and may not work good for you. I can accept that. But, just because I like it and it works for me doesn't make me wrong or anything, either. Just different style of usage.

Back to the car analogy: some people can't stand manual transmissions - I love them. It doesn't make them wrong, does it?

 

[MrCrispy]

What I don't get is how you have to either love it or hate it. But, regardless, someone will say you're wrong. You can't have an opinion on why you don't like it. Some people find iOS very easy and efficient. I don't. Some people find Live Tiles and Windows 8 Start Screen very easy and efficient. It depends. Some people might not think so, and it's totally fine. But, others (myself included) really like it.

What works great for me may not fit your usage or your style and may not work good for you. I can accept that. But, just because I like it and it works for me doesn't make me wrong or anything, either. Just different style of usage.

Back to the car analogy: some people can't stand manual transmissions - I love them. It doesn't make them wrong, does it?

If you summarize all the Win 8 threads, there are basically 2 points of view -

1. Win 8 is great on tablets, not so much on desktop and is a pain to use for most people and is less productive

2. Win 8 is great everywhere, you need to learn the new ways on the desktop, don't hate change, the new UI is just as good or better.


heatlesssun, chinesepiratefood etc are firmly in the #2 camp. For everyone else (#1) all the complaints are about Metro on desktop only. Everyone agrees WinRT is great, and the kernel changes are great.

 

[Tudz]

What I don't get is how you have to either love it or hate it.

That's not really true. Most people are just middle of the road, slightly one way or another. The people who are compelled to present their opinions repeatedly and aggressively are the ones you hear, who either love it or hate it. You don't hear the indifferent people nearly as much, which is why heatless' long enduring fanaticism is disturbing, I can only imagine the strange relationship he has with MS and W8 to evoke such love

Also you have people who are slightly one way of the middle ground, either liking or hating, and then they come up against the one sided argument from someone who either loves it or hates it, and so they end up posting equally one sided remarks. I'm sure a lot of people who come across as rampant hate only do so because they come up against the likes of heatless' and others rampant love and in reality they're more middle of the road, and likewise I'm sure a lot of people who come across as lovers are actually more neutral but are simply responding to the hate.

Back to the car analogy: some people can't stand manual transmissions - I love them. It doesn't make them wrong, does it?

Precisely why good car manufacturers offer both options. MS should learn from that

 

[heatlesssun]

No, its a UI that works well on touch and desktop both. The OS already detects if I have touch - if I don't there's no need to dumb down my UI.

But its not either or, its both and.

You do more because you don't use a desktop pc. You are one of the few with a touch device so of course you like it, and you view everything from that perspective. For the hundreds of millions of people who won't have touch and don't care for it, all Win 8 does is slow them down and make life harder.

I view Windows 8 from multiple perspectives. I use Windows 8 with keyboard and mouse/track pad a good bit more than touch and I've been running it a dual screen keyboard and mouse desktop as well as tablets since the Developer Preview to get a true feel for it across platforms. The desktop experience just isn't that different from Windows 7 when you stop trying to make it Windows 7. Metro adds a wrinkle but I use Metro apps for different purposes than desktop apps but I mix and match Metro and desktop app across desktop and tablets.

I just don't know what I'm supposed to say. That creating a document in Word or Excel on Windows 8 takes more time than Windows 7? That writing code in Visual Studio takes longer in Windows 8 and than 7? It just doesn't for me. The experience in these things is just the same between 7 and 8. I find it interesting when people discuss Windows 8's supposed desktop inefficiency and talk far more about where the power button is than actually doing work in the OS with their programs. It's really hard to be productive with a computer if one is constantly turning it off.

And please don't compare the ribbon - that was based on actual research to make the UI more efficient. Win 8 is based on designing the whole OS for tablet use only.

So Microsoft has done no research on one of the biggest changes to any product for one version to the next ever? And to this day the same complaints about not liking the ribbon and it impacting productivity are made.

 

[MrCrispy]

Yes, I have seen no usability studies on Metro on desktop from MS. They published plenty on the changes to Explorer, Task manager and all the other changes.

Compare http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/08/29/improvements-in-windows-explorer.aspx with http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/18/creating-the-windows-8-user-experience.aspx.

One is based on actual metrics, the 2nd one just says the desktop isn't going away.

 

[heatlesssun]

I didn't think that Microsoft published it's usability studies. They're plenty that I've read that talks about those studies, of course they did them. Now maybe the conclusions weren't very good and they should Windows 8 to be a UI disaster like all the pundits that we know didn't do formal usability testing are saying and Microsoft decided to risk it anyway because they needed a tablet OS two years ago.

But the guy is has the most on the line in all of this might very well be Steven Sinofsky. If Windows 8 does well, he's probably the next Microsoft CEO. I simply don't believe that a guy like Sinofsky who is successful as he's been and looking at becoming on the more powerful CEOs in the world just launch a product that he hand not done UI studies on and would just wing it. I can understand not liking Windows 8 but there's just no logical way for me to think that this just being winged.

 

[Noman]

Microsoft spent a lot of time, explaining in detail why certain decisions were taken about the start screen. For those interested in finding out why Start screen tiles are designed that way, and how start screen and start menu can compare in usage efficiency (time to find an object, dexterity needed to click that object etc), read the blog from a senior program manager in MS user experience team.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx

Filled with lots of data and research references, the blogs answered most of the concerns that were leveled against start screen early on. One may not agree with those reasonings, but their arguments are mostly well reasoned and can't be brushed aside without some serious debate.