Surface pricing to be revealed today October 16th

CEpeep said:
Are you shitting me? I need a "certified" Bluetooth keyboard or mouse? Setting sail for fail.
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The question is what does certified for Windows RT really mean? It's probably just a list of devices that Microsoft has tested and approved to work properly with Windows RT and that's probably going to be a very large list.
 
It's best to think of Windows RT as a bigger WP8 phone and not Windows. It comes with the same set of features/restrictions, however you want to look at it - certified apps and accessories, drivers, moderated app store.

Which is not a bad thing. The goal is that the huge base of Windows developers and the rich new WinRT api will result in a much better apps than iOS or Android. Whether that happens remains to be seen.
 
E^vol said:
Well it does have Office RT, but it does NOT have Media Player. (I'm wondering what this means for media play back?!)

Also:

Source: Microsoft Store

More we actually learn about the RT, the less appealing it becomes...Remember, the selling point is that it is a "Windows" product, yet it is less and less compatible with traditional Windows software / environment. General public will expect it to work the same way their desktops at home work, and will be disappointed with the limited nature.
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I meant primarily Netflix/Hulu for video watching. I'll be able to test one out in person on the 26th as there is a Microsoft store in Austin that will have some on hand.
 
This looks like a terrible launch. MS tablet's perceived value by consumers is going to be so much lower than Apple's. I wonder if they will discount it and in the end just look desperate instead of just starting at a lower price. It feels like they have this higher price because they do not have a profitable ecosystem for themselves and/or they think too highly of themselves in this market.
 
darrpara said:
I meant primarily Netflix/Hulu for video watching. I'll be able to test one out in person on the 26th as there is a Microsoft store in Austin that will have some on hand.
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Gotcha.
Please let us all know how it is / what it's like, when you can. ;)
 
heatlesssun said:
The question is what does certified for Windows RT really mean? It's probably just a list of devices that Microsoft has tested and approved to work properly with Windows RT and that's probably going to be a very large list.
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They can't make it a large list of devices. Think of how bloated the kernel would be. You're talking about a small OS and a minimized installation in order to save space. Allowing a huge set of drivers means a much bigger and slower OS requiring more resources.

If you needed a very large list of supported devices out of the box, you'd need an install as large as Win7, and that just won't fit on a 16GB and 32GB device.
 
MrCrispy said:
Which is not a bad thing. The goal is that the huge base of Windows developers and the rich new WinRT api will result in a much better apps than iOS or Android. Whether that happens remains to be seen.
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Yeah. They should have sent a free WinRT tablet to every MS Certified Partner months ago for them to start cranking out awesome apps. MS could have had a winner on their hands if RT tablets launched with a huge collection of awesome apps from day 1, or they could have had a winner if they released at a price competitive with 10" offerings from Amazon and Barnes & Noble. Instead, they attempted neither. We are getting a tablet whose only compelling app is Office and that costs as much as the iPad. What were they thinking? To make matters worse for MS, they've been working on Office for iOS and Android, which is rumored to release Q2 2013. That gives MS 6 months to ride their wave of exclusivity before they shoot themselves in the foot by releasing it on their competitors devices. I'm hoping they decide to can Office for other platforms and keep it as exclusive to drive adoption of their own platform. There are only a few compelling things about this device, and none are enough to make up for its shortcomings. Maybe I will be able to get one for $99 in 6 months like my HP Touchpad. If so, I'm in for sure.
 
Pssst..they're also spending over 1bn for ads. They should have priced the surface at 299 or 349 and put NO advertising on this.
 
pelo said:
They can't make it a large list of devices. Think of how bloated the kernel would be. You're talking about a small OS and a minimized installation in order to save space. Allowing a huge set of drivers means a much bigger and slower OS requiring more resources.

If you needed a very large list of supported devices out of the box, you'd need an install as large as Win7, and that just won't fit on a 16GB and 32GB device.
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You don't have to add to the kernel to support a standard driver protocol: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/07/25/simplifying-printing-in-windows-8.aspx
 
Specs comparing both versions of Surface on Microsoft's site.

Image saved as jpg converted from the downloaded specs pdf (for quick reference)
Untitled.jpg
 
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Here's a question for those of you who might know...

What's the difference between 5 point (RT) and 10 point (Pro) multi-touch in terms of real world tablet usability ?
 
E^vol said:
Here's a question for those of you who might know...

What's the difference between 5 point (RT) and 10 point (Pro) multi-touch in terms of real world tablet usability ?
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I would say overall not that much. I have an Asus EP121 and Lenovo x220t that support only two touch points and the Samsung Series 7 that supports 8 and the only time it's ever mattered really is with music apps. In fact Windows 8 doesn't have any gestures at the OS level that require more than two touch points unlike the iPad that has trans-two touch point OS navigation.
 
E^vol said:
Here's a question for those of you who might know...

What's the difference between 5 point (RT) and 10 point (Pro) multi-touch in terms of real world tablet usability ?
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I'm not sure I've ever used a tablet that supported more than 5-point touch, unless it was a hidden feature, and I've used a lot of tablets (my job involves mobile app development). There's no way to hold it if you want to use both hands on the screen, and a flimsy stand is just going to tip over if you push on the tablet with both hands (you have less arm balance with both hands extended, so the natural inclination is to push harder on a solid object). As a developer of mobile apps, I am having trouble even thinking of a practical use for having both hands on the display at the same time. The best I can come up with is actually two people using the tablet at the same time for a multiplayer game or perhaps some kind of specialized medical app. Plus, reaching out both hands at the same time toward a tablet on a stand looks like you are trying to fondle invisible bosom, as my coworker put it in slightly better words.
 
Wow. That seems like quite a pricing fumble.

MS is pricing its low res ARM (1366x768)tablet the same as high res iOS/Android (2048x1536/1920x1200) tablets.

Both iOS/Android have much, MUCH more software, heck even RIM Playbook has more software.
 
Only explanation for the pricing disaster -

1. MS can't afford to piss off oem's
2. MS knows they won't sell that many, so they can't afford to lose money (if they're breaking even at this price). This also means they aren't willing to make a huge bet on this (like they did for Xbox)
 
MrCrispy said:
Only explanation for the pricing disaster -

1. MS can't afford to piss off oem's
2. MS knows they won't sell that many, so they can't afford to lose money (if they're breaking even at this price). This also means they aren't willing to make a huge bet on this (like they did for Xbox)
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3. Ballmer is trying to out Apple, Apple in every way, including overpricing. ;)

Actually #1 makes sense to certain extent. You don't want to Nexus your partners and sell a device with no profit margin and drive them out of the market. Certainly no danger of that here. I think Microsoft could have gone as low as $399 without that happening. $399 was my prediction of where the Surface RT would be priced. So tablet pricing it isn't that far off.

But the touch covers for $120. That is just silly overpriced.
 
Didn't Ballmer tell the Seattle Times "If you look at the bulk of the PC market, it would run between, say, probably $300 to about $700 or $800. That's the sweet spot."
So what happened to that $300 version? :confused:
$500 is a long way off from "$300"
 
Snowdog said:
3. Ballmer is trying to out Apple, Apple in every way, including overpricing. ;)

Actually #1 makes sense to certain extent. You don't want to Nexus your partners and sell a device with no profit margin and drive them out of the market. Certainly no danger of that here. I think Microsoft could have gone as low as $399 without that happening. $399 was my prediction of where the Surface RT would be priced. So tablet pricing it isn't that far off.

But the touch covers for $120. That is just silly overpriced.
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#3 - MS actually believe it's worth the asking price. And I think this is actually the case, given how much attention to detail, time and money they've obviously spent on Surface.

But its too bad really, people simply won't care for any details once they hear the price. The Touch cover isn't that far off, since an iPad Smart Cover is $40 by itself and most keyboards are $50+ as well.

The least MS could've done is give a $50 discount if you get the cover and tablet bundle.
 
I'm wondering about the new Office applications on the Surface Pro. Will it be possible to get the touch-based Office applications on non-RT devices?

There's Office, Office RT, and then there's OneNote MX in the Windows Store right now. Will Office MX applications be the x86-64 touch-optimized applications?
 
Taikero said:
Will it be possible to get the touch-based Office applications on non-RT devices?
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Absolutely. The x86 version of Office 2013 is a proper functional superset of the Office 2013 RT version and includes all of the touch capabilities of the RT version.

I've been running Office 2013 on three different touch and pen Windows 7 devices Word, PowerPoint, Outlook and especially OneNote work quite well. Excel, Visio don't work as well.
 
MrCrispy said:
#3 - MS actually believe it's worth the asking price. And I think this is actually the case, given how much attention to detail, time and money they've obviously spent on Surface.

But its too bad really, people simply won't care for any details once they hear the price. The Touch cover isn't that far off, since an iPad Smart Cover is $40 by itself and most keyboards are $50+ as well.

The least MS could've done is give a $50 discount if you get the cover and tablet bundle.
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Well I would say it is more what Microsoft thinks they can get away with charging.

But seriously $120 for that cover. Indefensible. This is just a capacitive sensor grid on a plastic backing, that is powered by the tablet.

For the iPad you can get this Logitech $99 KB/Cover/Stand. It is Bluetooth, rechargeable, aluminum backed with real keys for less money.
http://allthingsd.com/20120521/one-small-keyboard-for-logitech-one-giant-leap-for-ipad-productivity/
 
I think once everyone see's these in the wild, they'll want one immediatamente!!

I had sticker shock at first.. but after reading an arstechnica and verge article about the making of surface, I really think this is a PREMIUM product. It starts at $500 because this is a Steve Jobs level of attention to detail. I was going to wait for surface pro... but this is really tempting. The form factor alone is going to get people talking.
 
blinx said:
I think once everyone see's these in the wild, they'll want one immediatamente!!

I had sticker shock at first.. but after reading an arstechnica and verge article about the making of surface, I really think this is a PREMIUM product. It starts at $500 because this is a Steve Jobs level of attention to detail. I was going to wait for surface pro... but this is really tempting. The form factor alone is going to get people talking.
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I think the important thing here to keep in mind is that Microsoft was never looking to sell these anywhere near iPad numbers. Not saying that they wouldn't like to but Microsoft's current business model is just at odds with that.

Surface was meant first and foremost to be the face on Windows 8/RT, it is the first PC model ever that millions of people will know by name. It creates an identity for Windows 8/RT. This is not your fathers PC, literally.
 
It is definitely priced 100$ too high to be competitive in the market. When Microsoft has to lower the price 6 months after release to bump sales that won't look good either. The problem Microsoft is going to have from this is that people will be driven to get lower quality Windows RT tablets, they will compare those to the iPad and they will be unimpressed with the build quality and then write off Windows 8 entirely for tablets. Microsoft needed to get a price point that was lower than the iPad to entice consumers to try their device, then get them hooked on the idea that Windows 8 tablets provided the same premium feel they compare to with the iPad.
 
darrpara said:
Not to be a MS defender but there is a lot more to a screen than resolution. We just don't know how good the actual screen on the surface is.Surface has 1) better front facing video for chatting 2) micro SXDC slot for expansion. I don't get the hype for PPI/DPI on devices this size. 720p is more than enough on a 10" device!

I'll probably pick one of these up for my wife as she has wanted a device to watch movies on but also do some office stuff for work on. For users like her this device is perfect. I personally will wait for Surface Pro pricing vs other OEMs vs Ultrabooks to make a decision for a device I need but that is because I have specific work applications which require x86.
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The screen is up in the air, but lets be clear no one has higher buying power in this space right now than apple. So there is almost no chance that the screen is going to be better than the ipad3. Apple has a near monopoly on the ultra high end IPS displays from LG. To think that MS dropped so many balls and is going to pull a wild card out with some amazing screen is naive.


This is a major ball drop. There is only one real wild card. Maybe people are sick of ipads and android and will go for something new, maybe the surface keyboard will be just the hit catch, but it seems unlikely. The other thing that we dont know is what real world pricing will be. Unlike apple MS and friends often have lots of sales. I could easily see sales bringing this down $100. But waiting for sales will cost MS a ton of publicity.

IMO all this really shows is that google can sit very comfortable now with android they know MS will not do what it needs to to win at this point in the game. I never count MS out because they often come from way behind and still catch up, but in reality all this means is when windows 8 releases I know MS will not have its act together and I will probably not be buying a windows phone 8 I will be grabbing the galaxy note 2.
 
so $500 for the basic surface model, when you can get the Acer Iconia W510 for the same price and it runs full win8. surface should have been priced $100 less and included the keyboard. oh well. acer gets my money, unless something better comes out that runs full win8 for $500.
 
Gabe3 said:
so $500 for the basic surface model, when you can get the Acer Iconia W510 for the same price and it runs full win8. surface should have been priced $100 less and included the keyboard. oh well. acer gets my money, unless something better comes out that runs full win8 for $500.
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My thoughts exactly. Even if all you wanted to do was run Metro Apps, the new Atom SoC is likely double the performance of the Tegra 3 in Surface RT, and will still get you 9 hours of battery life.

Having access to a million x86 apps would also come in Handy.
 
Gabe3 said:
so $500 for the basic surface model, when you can get the Acer Iconia W510 for the same price and it runs full win8. surface should have been priced $100 less and included the keyboard. oh well. acer gets my money, unless something better comes out that runs full win8 for $500.
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Yeah, but it's an Acer. All they make is low quality garbage.

Have you ever heard a single people say "Man, I really want that Acer!" ?
 
dan87 said:
Yeah, but it's an Acer. All they make is low quality garbage.

Have you ever heard a single people say "Man, I really want that Acer!" ?
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the acer netbook I had was built far better than the 4 year old macbook I'm using now, which the tablet will be replacing. acer, dell, samsung, asus, and the rest are all low quality garbage unless its a business class device.
 
Gabe3 said:
the acer netbook I had was built far better than the 4 year old macbook I'm using now, which the tablet will be replacing. acer, dell, samsung, asus, and the rest are all low quality garbage unless its a business class device.
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I think for all of these new Windows 8 tablet devices from all manufacturers you're going to see much better quality across the board. As much as anything Surface was meant to make that statement to OEMs. Plus the prices for these devices are not cheap. People are going to expect Apple like quality for these devices.
 
dan87 said:
Yeah, but it's an Acer. All they make is low quality garbage.
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If you are dead set against Acer, it seems likely that some competitor will also build a fairly priced Atom SoC tablet.

The real points is Atom vs ARM and the difference in capability.
 
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