So now that I am an audiophile...

Face said:
Not always: http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/polkaudio_lsi9/impedance.gif
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Ummm...yeah that kinda proves my point. Its the frequencies between 20 and 50 Hz that cause the most heat in the voice coil and the most resistance. And I didnt say that ONLY bass frequencies cause heat. The bulk of the music, especially the human voice is in the 500-2000 Hz range so youd expect that to affect the voice coil as well.

actually, high end amplifiers are all different because some like passlabs start at 2ohms and go all the way up to 16.
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Right. An amp that can work at 4 ohms can also handle 8 and 16 and an amp that can handle 2 ohms can work at 4, 8 or 16 as well. So yes, most high end amps work at 4 ohms.
 
dashpuppy said:
i wish that was my system :)

i bet you there is more than 250K$ in that room :)
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Diffusion behind the speakers? Switch that with absorption and put diffusion behind the listener. For 250K he could have built a floating room with proper treatments versus blowing tons of cash on amps with tons of headroom in a space the size of a closet.
 
illgiveumorality said:
Diffusion behind the speakers? Switch that with absorption and put diffusion behind the listener. For 250K he could have built a floating room with proper treatments versus blowing tons of cash on amps with tons of headroom in a space the size of a closet.
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pictures don't do justice, and i didn't take pictures of the raised floor in front, the whole room is sound treated x 2 cement and power dedicated wiring to that room, with grounding schemes etc etc, trust me that room is NOT small its kinda oval ish.

He is a audio file FOR SURE! all the cables are matched exact lengths speakers are matched from the factory, he moded the x-overs for the tweeter tho, and changed the stuffing in side.

I think thats a $12,000 dac and $15,000 sacd unit, i can't remember the models but they ain't cheap at all.
 
jetfire said:
why are the cables on plastic cups with bits of wood on them :rolleyes:
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You mean you dont know what cable risers are? Its simple. The vibrations from the speakers travel thru the floor and into the RCA cables and that causes noise and interference. So you raise them off the floor.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Its the most ridiculous scam in audio 2nd only to the $60 "magic" extension cords......and maybe tubes. At least this guy made his own instead of coughing up $45 for a set of 8 that look like little shot glasses.
 
Gym Rat said:
You mean you dont know what cable risers are? Its simple. The vibrations from the speakers travel thru the floor and into the RCA cables and that causes noise and interference. So you raise them off the floor.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Its the most ridiculous scam in audio 2nd only to the $60 "magic" extension cords......and maybe tubes. At least this guy made his own instead of coughing up $45 for a set of 8 that look like little shot glasses.
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I'm not to sure why he did the cables, BUT each piece is isolated and floating, i know he wanted them off the floor so that's why they are raised not sure why he used Styrofoam cups tho. Probably didn't want to buy 60 - 500$ cable isolators LOL ( yes those are a joke for the fools who buy them )

Listening to some Diana Krall on that system was just amazing.
 
why is there so much diffusion at the front of the room?
and are those panels all the same qrd design? so many like that will cause lobing, no? shouldnt he be using inverse qrds in the mix as well?
 
dashpuppy said:
pictures don't do justice, and i didn't take pictures of the raised floor in front, the whole room is sound treated x 2 cement and power dedicated wiring to that room, with grounding schemes etc etc, trust me that room is NOT small its kinda oval ish.
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Fair enough! If he has balanced power, I'd be very impressed.
 
SYN ACK said:
why is there so much diffusion at the front of the room?
and are those panels all the same qrd design? so many like that will cause lobing, no? shouldnt he be using inverse qrds in the mix as well?
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Lobing would be caused by the diffusor efficiency, not type of diffusor.
 
Actually, one of the worst rip offs in so-called high end audio is the people who pay 4+ figures for hardware with unbalanced audio I/O.
 
cymon said:
Actually, one of the worst rip offs in so-called high end audio is the people who pay 4+ figures for hardware with unbalanced audio I/O.
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yes, its cheaper to make it balanced than it is to make it analogue, weird eh.


That whole room is balanced power it has a huge conditioner and a power panel on the opposite side for clean power, the guy spend alot of money :) it's not just for looks :)
 
With today's hard drive capacities and pricing, I would argue that FLAC/lossless is always better than MP3. Sometimes you will tell the difference, sometimes you will not, but even ~300 MB a disc is small against today's drives.

The problem, of course, is that FLAC is difficult to find as a legal download. Personally, I like to shop Amazon for CD deals on the cheap and RIP them, but there are a few very nice subscription services for 24-bit FLAC/lossless that have content which sounds simply superb, depending on the type of music you listen to. (I listen to a lot of composed music, played by the LSO, etc., so the extra detail is certainly not wasted.)

As for what player... well, your goal is to get bit-perfect digital output. So, at least in Windows, you want a player which can output via kernel streaming, ASIO, or WASAPI (Windows Vista/7). I use foobar2000 and have been very happy with it, but I am sure there are other fine players out there. (If you want visualizations in particular, for instance, you may not want to use foobar2000.)

Also, a quick note regarding speaker efficiency. The manufacturers' use of the dB/1W rating as a measurement for efficiency is often very misleading, and this measurement, or rather how it is obtained, is not standardized across all brands. Many factors need to be weighed when evaluating the efficiency of a speaker. A useful, but still arguably narrow, rule of thumb to go by is to look at a well regarded impedance versus frequency graph for a given speaker.

Here, you want to look not only at the minimum and nominal impedance of the speaker(s), but also at the phase angles - the degree of change or slope of the line on the impedance versus frequency graph. If the phase angle is "negative" it is said to be capacitive and inductive otherwise. A very "negative" phase angle at a given frequency means that the speaker is very capacitive at that frequency. If the speaker dips low in impedance at a given frequency while also being very capacitive, that speaker will require a large inrush of current to drive at that frequency.

If the amplifier can not discharge enough current from its capacitors and/or move enough current to the speakers quickly enough when required, then the speakers are likely to clip. This is bad not only for the speaker itself, but for the sound quality as well.

Thus, much of the time a high-powered amplifier is really providing an increase in volume due to an increase in headroom. In other words, you will almost never need anywhere near the full power of the amplifier, but then comes along this one very dynamic passage in your music at that magic frequency (range) from above and you suddenly discharge everything you have all at once. Capacitors then need time to recharge, too. These and other factors can contribute to an increase in dynamics (clipping prevention as well as handling quick changes in frequencies and gain inherent to some/most music and movies) when you provide inefficient speakers with more power. (Plus, the law of diminishing returns holds true for power versus an increase in "volume" as well.)

So yes, speakers such as the Polk LSi9s are very inefficient, and not simply because of their dB/1W rating. You risk more than a loss in dynamics by underpowering them; you risk the speakers and the amplifier driving them as well.
 
dashpuppy said:
yes, its cheaper to make it balanced than it is to make it analogue, weird eh.


That whole room is balanced power it has a huge conditioner and a power panel on the opposite side for clean power, the guy spend alot of money :) it's not just for looks :)
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I think you mean cheaper to make it digital (which it's not). Balanced audio I/O is analog. Balanced systems just use differential signalling--just like Ethernet. You have the 'normal' signal, and then a signal that is 180 degrees out of phase. Put the normal signal into the + input of an op amp and the 180 degree out of phase input into the - input and that's a balanced input circuit. Stereo balanced audio can be done with any dual op amp chip on the market, which is well under a dollar.

I find it highly amusing that the 'audiophile' world would save a heck of a lot of money by just using standard pro audio/broadcast practices such as balanced analog audio, connecting the cable shield to chassis grounds, etc.

Balanced power, huh? So he's just using a 240V split-phase system?
 
cymon said:
I think you mean cheaper to make it digital (which it's not). Balanced audio I/O is analog. Balanced systems just use differential signalling--just like Ethernet. You have the 'normal' signal, and then a signal that is 180 degrees out of phase. Put the normal signal into the + input of an op amp and the 180 degree out of phase input into the - input and that's a balanced input circuit. Stereo balanced audio can be done with any dual op amp chip on the market, which is well under a dollar.

I find it highly amusing that the 'audiophile' world would save a heck of a lot of money by just using standard pro audio/broadcast practices such as balanced analog audio, connecting the cable shield to chassis grounds, etc.

Balanced power, huh? So he's just using a 240V split-phase system?
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the amplifiers that i have built are balanced & non-balanced, i use either or. Using balanced = money for ends & cable.
 
rive22 said:
If you're into electro music Beatport.com is king and sells lossless.
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As do junodownload.com, vinyl-distribution.co.uk, trackitdown.net, armadamusicshop.com, djdownload.com, digital-tunes.net and probably a few more that escape my memory. Most of these carry EDM, some might carry other genres, but I haven't checked.
 
Old Hippie said:
Color me impressed.

I've followed Nelson Pass's designs since Threshold and it must have been a great opportunity for you to work with a master.

Nice!
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Nelson is my audio idle :) he builds good stuff and does very well. Very helpful at all times too
 
dashpuppy said:
Nelson is my audio idle :) he builds good stuff and does very well. Very helpful at all times too
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I'm 58 and was heavily into audio from 1970 to @ 1985 when the High-End audio scene was just emerging for us baby boomers that had plenty of discretionary income.

Pass was one of the emerging designers that pushed high-end audio to it's limits.

I've never been jealous of other people's purchases/possesions but I do get envious of others' experiences.

Meeting and collaborating with Nelson Pass definately qualifies as one of those experiences.

Nice and congrats!
 
Old Hippie said:
I'm 58 and was heavily into audio from 1970 to @ 1985 when the High-End audio scene was just emerging for us baby boomers that had plenty of discretionary income.

Pass was one of the emerging designers that pushed high-end audio to it's limits.

I've never been jealous of other people's purchases/possesions but I do get envious of others' experiences.

Meeting and collaborating with Nelson Pass definately qualifies as one of those experiences.

Nice and congrats!
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today is my 11 years of diyaudio member :)

I get a lot of opinions on why i should just buy equipment more than build it. PERSONALLY i don't like buying amplifiers or built speakers or cables.

I do it all my self.
 
You're into it way more than I.

My 58yr. old ears have worked in a steel mill for 31 yrs and I can no longer appreciate the finer things that uber equipment brings to the table.
 
Old Hippie said:
You're into it way more than I.

My 58yr. old ears have worked in a steel mill for 31 yrs and I can no longer appreciate the finer things that uber equipment brings to the table.
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You can build some nice pass lab's amps and use them to heat your house if you want :)

4 of my 15 watt ones keep me WARM !

j'
 
sweetfeet2eat said:
Polks are my favs by far, no others compare. Good call :)
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I'm happy with the setup in my sig... I have auditioned pretty high-end ($1k, $5k+ pricing) speakers at a local high-end home theater builder's shop, and honestly, while there is a difference, I really had to strain to tell it past the $600/ea point compared to my $150/ea speakers. I listened to material I was familiar with, as well as bluray discs there. Unless you are truly gifted with incredible hearing, virtually no one is going to be able to tell the difference in general past about $1k/ea. Honestly, I know some of what to listen for and couldn't tell beyond that point.

My setup is an Onkyo HT-R340, Polk Monitor 60's front, Monitor 40's rear, CS2 center, and a medium sub that was bundled with the R340... run it in tandem with blu's and my projector, it's 95% of the experience for 1/50th the cost.
 
Old Hippie said:
I know how ya feel.

My "babies" were an origional pair of Acoustat X speakers that I purchased in '76 and modified with an upgrade kit to make them Monitor 4s.

They were glorious but it was time for me to pass them on to someone that could appreciate them to the fullest.
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pretty sure and positive i won't get rid of my 4 x 15watt class a amplifiers that i helped design, 15 watts x 4 is TONS of power for me.

If i build another set of amps it will be another pass labs design for sure!

Right now im working on my passive pre-amp.
 
dashpuppy said:
pretty sure and positive i won't get rid of my 4 x 15watt class a amplifiers that i helped design, 15 watts x 4 is TONS of power for me.

If i build another set of amps it will be another pass labs design for sure!

Right now im working on my passive pre-amp.
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Sounds like you're having a great time with the audiophile hobby.

It's a lot of fun and I've had many great times comparing/using/matching components.

Speakers were the products that "called my name" and it was fascinating to see the exotic ion tweeters, Beveridge Acoustic Lens, Dayton Wright electrostatics, and the grand daddy of them all, the Hill Plasmatronics.

Have fun, it's a great hobby!
 
Thought this might be of interest for those talking about impedance vs. frequency of speakers. This is for the notorious "amp killer" Infinity Kappa 9 speakers:

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Yes, that is a drop down to 0.8 ohms at ~32 Hz. These WILL destroy any amp not stable down to 1 ohm. There is a switch on the back that puts a 1 ohm resistor in series with the woofers to raise the impedance to a more reasonable point, but it's still below 2 ohms at that point.

Kappa 8s are much easier to drive (they also have the switch) - I have a pair myself (and I'm selling them since I've upgraded to Infinity Renaissance 90 speakers); a lovely Nelson Pass designed Adcom GFA-555 will run them fine. Even that beast of an amp will only suit the Kappa 9s with the resistor in series (that's called "normal" mode, without the resistor is "extended" mode).
 
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