Microsoft stoops to new low with ads in Windows 11, as PC Manager tool suggests your system needs ‘repairing’ if you don’t use Bing

MrGuvernment

MrGuvernment

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Not surprising at all...test it in one market, see how it goes then force it on the world...

Microsoft stoops to new low with ads in Windows 11, as PC Manager tool suggests your system needs ‘repairing’ if you don’t use Bing​

https://www.techradar.com/computing...r-system-needs-repairing-if-you-dont-use-bing

PC Manager app is only available in some regions, but could come to the US eventually

As Windows 11 users are becoming accustomed to more ads in key places of the operating system, Microsoft is seemingly experimenting with adding yet another advert covertly presented as a recommendation. This time the software giant is trying out having PC Manager suggest that you 'repair' your system by reverting to Microsoft's default search engine, Bing.
PC Manager is a Microsoft utility available in some regions that enables you to get a handle on system storage management and file management, and it can help optimize your PC's performance. Generally speaking, it's considered a pretty good app, but as with a lot of its products, that's not enough for Microsoft - it's also increasingly in the business of turning various products and features into ad vehicles (especially if they’re free!).

Windows 11 has already seen ads introduced in parts of the interface like File Explorer, the Settings app, and, most recently, the Start menu. That roster is being expanded, as Windows Latest discovered, to include PC Manager, which recently got the addition of a 'Repair Tips' section and a Files Cleanup feature (which can detect duplicate files and more besides).

Looking for potential repairs? Microsoft has a suggestion​

The advert was discovered when Windows Latest checked out the new 'Repair Tips' section of the PC Manager app, which suggested that the PC be 'repaired' by switching the default search engine back to Bing (which is the Windows pre-installed default) from Google Search (or whatever other browser is set as default).
People who use Windows have picked up on Microsoft's persistence when it comes to ads, for example the 'promoted' third-party ads beginning to show up in the Start menu's 'Recommended' section. The suggestion that switching back to Bing is a ‘repair’ is a new low, though, as it’s effectively implying that using another search engine is actually a fault with your PC, in a way. Switching to Bing search is not going to improve your PC’s performance, is it? Hardly.
As Windows Latest reports, the PC Manager app was developed by Microsoft engineers in China, and it’s possible that the company may drop odd manner to push Bing if the software is rolled out more broadly elsewhere - it may come to the US eventually.
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I won't use an operating system with ads in it, full stop.

At least unless I can somehow disable them.

I also don't use either Edge or Bing (or Co-Pilot) and never will.

Microsoft seems determined to drive away it's long term users, and that's fine I guess. If they don't want us, we can move on.

I mean, something like this was bound to happen when the $139 license fees every few years went away. The money has to come from somewhere, and if they aren't charging you for it, you are the product.

I don't want to be the product, so I'll just use something else.
 
So this comes from an app thats made for the Chinese market? If the app doesnt come pre-installed this shouldnt be a big deal. Still dumb though
 
techie81 said:
I will say it again, software that you have paid for should not have any ads (and telemetry) in it. Zero. I wouldn't have an issue if it displayed ads if it were not activated.
Click to expand...

The problem is people are paying $40.00 for a Windows license online, and claiming it's somehow 'legit'.
 
kydsid said:
I don't know how my Win11 box manages, but not using Bing and no notification, no Ads other than in lock screen it show the market info.
Click to expand...
same. its no different than google and apple asking for sign ins to their accounts or "advertising", aka suggesting, you use their built in shit. the same group is always reeeing about it, instead of just quietly using their clearly superior linux setups...
 
Mazzspeed said:
The problem is people are paying $40.00 for a Windows license online, and claiming it's somehow 'legit'.
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Not trying to be confrontational in saying this: why would you pay Microsoft full price for a Windows license when it has no impact on how infested the experience is with advertising, dark patterns, and dead-eyed encouragement to give Microsoft money for their services every year for the rest of your life? Microsoft sees Windows as a stable investment and delivery mechanism for advertising to users, which are themselves metrics to cultivate for profitability under the surveillance capitalism it's embraced. Anything which doesn’t contribute to that - user Explorer customization,local accounts, browser and search engine choice, disabling telemetry - stands in the way of delivering financial results they believe they're entitled to. Given all of that, why would I pay full price for a license if it makes no difference and gives a company with a market cap of 3 trillion dollars even more money to use against the things in computing I actually like?
 
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Don't make me say the "L" word. If you didn't see this coming 2 years ago when Microsoft required TPM 2.0 and pushed for a Microsoft account then you don't know Microsoft. I can assure you it'll only get worse with Copilot and other dumb ways Microsoft will try to integrate AI into Windows. Wait and see when a Windows cloud AI feature will work just fine on Linux and MacOS without cloud AI.
linux ads.jpg
 
pendragon1 said:
same. its no different than google and apple asking for sign ins to their accounts or "advertising", aka suggesting, you use their built in shit.
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Apple and Google aren't the gold standard. If everyone is doing it, doesn't mean it's OK.
the same group is always reeeing about it, instead of just quietly using their clearly superior linux setups...
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How many Linux distros you see that have ads and heavily suggest you make an online account? In what way would this enhance the user experience? I can think of ways it doesn't.
 
DukenukemX said:
Apple and Google aren't the gold standard. If everyone is doing it, doesn't mean it's OK.

How many Linux distros you see that have ads and heavily suggest you make an online account? In what way would this enhance the user experience? I can think of ways it doesn't.
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didnt say they were. sure.
didnt say any of that either....
 
DukenukemX said:
How many Linux distros you see that have ads and heavily suggest you make an online account? In what way would this enhance the user experience? I can think of ways it doesn't.
Click to expand...

Lol, how many Linux distros do most people see period....(zero).


Anyway, just ordered five more Macs in my quest to purge my organization of Microsoft. Sadly the finance people will go to their grave with Windows and the engineers need it for some stuff, but at least I have all sales, execs, and support on Mac now.
 
paradoxical said:
Lol, how many Linux distros do most people see period....(zero).
Click to expand...
After all, look at Linux desktop market share, all distros lumped together.
paradoxical said:
Anyway, just ordered five more Macs in my quest to purge my organization of Microsoft.
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With top management support? Or they are simply clueless?
paradoxical said:
Sadly the finance people will go to their grave with Windows
Click to expand...
Zombies.

paradoxical said:
and the engineers need it for some stuff, but at least I have all sales, execs, and support on Mac now.
Click to expand...
And what is the reaction from those users?
 
philb2 said:
After all, look at Linux desktop market share, all distros lumped together.
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My company designs embedded linux hardware (hence the need for Windows for fucking Altium). If there is ever a company that is pro linux, it's the people designing the hardware to support it. Even with that being the case, it's totally infeasible to staff a company with normal users running linux. When you have to staff an entire company, the talent pool you're pulling from can't even spell linux let alone use it. Hell, they can barely use Windows or MacOS. While Linux runs the world behind the scenes, it's also completely irrelevant for most people and there is no amount of wishing you can do that will change that fact.

philb2 said:
With top management support? Or they are simply clueless?
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I'm the top management. I might be clueless, but it's worked out pretty well for me. Mosyle + ABM + Okta makes for a secure and hassle free environment. Shit just works, at least on the Macs.

philb2 said:
Zombies.
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They aren't zombies, but they do have the highest support costs across the organization.

philb2 said:
And what is the reaction from those users?
Click to expand...

They absofuckingloutely love their Macs and are thrilled ownership is willing to invest in nice machines for them, with good Caldigit TS4 docking stations, Uplift desks, ultrawide monitors, Logitech MX Master 3S mice, etc. Meanwhile, the windows users can't get their shit to even print right, their laptops always need to be plugged in during meetings, and people can't even hear them over the fan noise and shit microphones.

Of course, I'm not telling you anything that IBM and Cisco already didn't. I am sure you know this, but they released whitepapers showing that their Mac users had a lower TCO, less support costs, were happier, and more productive than their PC users. IBM had 90,000 Macs deployed with only 5 admins supporting them. My upgrade cycle for Macs is sitting a touch over 5 years right now; I basically only upgrade when users complain or something breaks. PCs are about 2.2 years. The typical failure mode on Dell XPS have been Thunderbolt ports/charging or mainboard failures from heat. Lenovos I have had a rash of keys falling off, which is totally strange since I still like their keyboards the best and have had zero issues until the last year.

Now, if you want to talk about support - Apple has UNLIMITED WARRANTY for $99/year. I can literally buy a $1300 Macbook Air and have a 10 year warranty on it for $99 a year. And if it breaks, I just go to the store and get a new one same day. Absolutely untouchable.
 
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Mazzspeed said:
The problem is people are paying $40.00 for a Windows license online, and claiming it's somehow 'legit'.
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MS was paid for that license, that they choose to resell it rather than use it should not make it illegal. I know it is against TOS, but that's a piece of toilet paper as far as I'm concerned. MS should not be able to prevent you from selling it if you never activated it.
 
M76 said:
MS was paid for that license, that they choose to resell it rather than use it should not make it illegal. I know it is against TOS, but that's a piece of toilet paper as far as I'm concerned. MS should not be able to prevent you from selling it if you never activated it.
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I only have issues with how they resell them in this case, usually they are buying the licenses in places like Brazil for $3 maybe $5, and they are reselling those for $40. Reselling within the same geographical region sure, but upselling like that opens a lot of loopholes I’d rather stayed closed.
 
pendragon1 said:
same. its no different than google and apple asking for sign ins to their accounts or "advertising", aka suggesting, you use their built in shit. the same group is always reeeing about it, instead of just quietly using their clearly superior linux setups...
Click to expand...
You keep insisting it is the same, but really it is not. I use brave browser on android and google never suggested I need to fix my phone by replacing it with chrome.
 
Lakados said:
I only have issues with how they resell them in this case, usually they are buying the licenses in places like Brazil for $3 maybe $5, and they are reselling those for $40. Reselling within the same geographical region sure, but upselling like that opens a lot of loopholes I’d rather stayed closed.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what do you mean. If it costs $3 or $5 to get a license in brazil why would anyone pay $40 in the same region? I don't even know where the $40 came from that's a very steep price for second hand oem licenses. It has been around $5-10 for the longest time for the PRO versions, even less for HOME.
 
This is great, shame it did not happen sooner. M$ will make a killing from 80% of the market which will tolerate/appreciate the ads, and remaining 20% of the market will be large enough to support an actual alternative.

I am slightly worried that there will not even be 20% of those who will not enjoys ads in Windows (as they do everywhere else, on their "smart" TV's, in Chrome browsing YT, FB, Twitter, other social media, and so on), but am hopeful that there will be enough of a rebellion to this, that it will further support viable alternatives, not only MacOS.
 
M76 said:
You keep insisting it is the same, but really it is not. I use brave browser on android and google never suggested I need to fix my phone by replacing it with chrome.
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we arent talking about phones.
 
M76 said:
I only have a google operating system on a phone. If you are not comparing an OS to another OS, then what are you comparing?
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chrome asks you to sign in.... phones do too, now that youve brought it up... oh and so do chromebooks.
 
DukenukemX said:
How many Linux distros you see that have ads and heavily suggest you make an online account? In what way would this enhance the user experience? I can think of ways it doesn't.
Click to expand...

With my trolling hat firmly on. The two most popular Linux distributions, Android and ChromeOS both push pretry hard for an online account. I don't think the bundled ads are pushed as hard as Windows though, but recent Android does force install a bunch of stuff when you sign in, that you pretty much need to let install and then remove. You can switch launchers and browsers and map apps and only see google if you go into the store, though. Although Google does keep pushing stuff into the sms app.

ChromeOS seems mostly ok? And if you're like my MIL, you can use guest mode for months because you forgot the main account password...
 
paradoxical said:
Now, if you want to talk about support - Apple has UNLIMITED WARRANTY for $99/year. I can literally buy a $1300 Macbook Air and have a 10 year warranty on it for $99 a year. And if it breaks, I just go to the store and get a new one same day. Absolutely untouchable.
Click to expand...

Wait what? You consider paying 990$ to keep an old machine around that long to be a good deal? As opposed to just investing it into a new one if it breaks (or more likely--or just hopefully--doesn't)? In 2-3 years tops, that thing is going to probably be outdated compared to the contemporary processors that will be releasing at the time.

As far as your IT-centric rant, I can't really comment too extensively, but I'm not surprised that Mac is easier to manage. It's probably much more locked down. Microsoft has a lot more possible software that can and will run on it, and has been patched together over time into what it is. That means too many loopholes for the average user to screw themselves over and/or IT admins that don't know what they're doing just loading the thing up with stuff that makes it run slow as crap (which in my experience with my own laptop is very common; I have no idea why my laptop fans are whirring 90% of the time when I'm doing nothing but I'm guessing it's related to all the security crap they put on it). Or maybe it's just that said admins have no other choice due to how flexible the OS is. I don't know. I think putting everyone except software engineers or engineers in general inside the baby crib surrounded by Mac walls is probably the right answer, but as a dev I find myself needing things installed down and dirty and sometimes I need to muck around to get what I need to work (which could be anything depending on the request). So I have admin rights to my laptop. No, I haven't deleted my hard drive and/or installed spyware yet. I've been with the company for over a decade. These days Windows in the enterprise space is kind of like an IQ test.

I'm surprised Microsoft has not been trying to move towards having an enterprise-centric locked/stripped down and refactored version of their OS, because they're definitely losing market share to Apple due to this.

With regards to Linux, there are definitely user-friendly distros out there and it is probably easier to manage than even Mac assuming that you know what you're doing, but there's probably even more possibility for the user to screw themselves over and it's just not popular enough in that space. Running some or many programs would likely need Wine, and it just hasn't had tooling developed around it being the actual UI OS that people are using. So yeah, no one is going to swap their enterprise to Linux. It just doesn't work until some really determined person goes out there and makes it happen, but they would be fighting an incredibly uphill battle.

Back on topic, I'm sure someone will defeat this ad crap if it gets annoying enough. The community always finds a way.
 
M76 said:
I'm not sure what do you mean. If it costs $3 or $5 to get a license in brazil why would anyone pay $40 in the same region? I don't even know where the $40 came from that's a very steep price for second hand oem licenses. It has been around $5-10 for the longest time for the PRO versions, even less for HOME.
Click to expand...
The discount key sites all try to do this, they get the keys in a region where the currency is crap and sell them for a substantial markup in other countries. It’s how they work.
 
Mazzspeed said:
The problem is people are paying $40.00 for a Windows license online, and claiming it's somehow 'legit'.
Click to expand...

Problem for who, though? Because MS has been so lax about enforcing windows activation, and so tolerant of all the keyselling schemes for so many years now, that it has to be deliberate. There are "activate windows for free!" guides, KMS activation guides, all sorts of free and "cheap" activation methods sitting out in the open and uncontested year after year on many tech sites, youtube videos, etc. Lists of keys that MS could blacklist but don't.

It's like there was a crossover point where an upfront or retail cost for a consumer Windows became more formality and an appendage of a bygone era. Because they could clamp down on the activation loopholes and key reselling any time, but don't. While they haven't gone as far as removing the activation mechanism from consumer Windows SKUs altogether, their interest is clearly not in any one-time pre-sale revenue, but in post-installation monetization and upsells including pay-forever service subscriptions and collect-forever user data and telemetry.
 
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Lakados said:
The discount key sites all try to do this, they get the keys in a region where the currency is crap and sell them for a substantial markup in other countries. It’s how they work.
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That was definitely true for gaming keys, but some discount key sellers have moved to direct buying from publishers / developers. But I've never seen that for applications.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Wait what? You consider paying 990$ to keep an old machine around that long to be a good deal?
Click to expand...

Two things: Apple will usually not repair your machine but give you a brand new one. If they do repair them, they tend to just replace half of the computer (display or mainboard/battery) which effectively gives you new hardware. Second, even if they did repair the old ones, I believe the Apple Silicon machines easily have a 7-10 year lifespan for general office use (not engineers or devs) except for the battery (which is covered by warranty). So yes, I consider a $1400 Macbook air initial purchase plus $990 an excellent value to completely solve all hardware needs for most positions for a decade.
 
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toast0 said:
With my trolling hat firmly on. The two most popular Linux distributions, Android and ChromeOS both push pretry hard for an online account. I don't think the bundled ads are pushed as hard as Windows though, but recent Android does force install a bunch of stuff when you sign in, that you pretty much need to let install and then remove. You can switch launchers and browsers and map apps and only see google if you go into the store, though. Although Google does keep pushing stuff into the sms app.
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ChromeOS... sure, but Android? Pure Android doesn't force anything. The moment you install Google apps is when things require you to sign in.
paradoxical said:
Lol, how many Linux distros do most people see period....(zero).
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Just a reminder that Linux is 4%, and that's not including ChromeOS's 2.5%. It's 3.88% but I'm rounding up. To give you some context, OS X is now 14.7%, or around 15%. Linux has 1/4 the amount MacOS has.
paradoxical said:
Now, if you want to talk about support - Apple has UNLIMITED WARRANTY for $99/year. I can literally buy a $1300 Macbook Air and have a 10 year warranty on it for $99 a year. And if it breaks, I just go to the store and get a new one same day. Absolutely untouchable.
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Yea but in 10 years you could buy another Macbook for the money you spend on AppleCare+. At what point does it warrant that much money when you could at some point just buy another machine? How reliable are Apple products if buying warranty is such a good deal? The whole industry only offers a 1 year when you buy their products, but buying warranty is a rip off.
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Running some or many programs would likely need Wine, and it just hasn't had tooling developed around it being the actual UI OS that people are using. So yeah, no one is going to swap their enterprise to Linux. It just doesn't work until some really determined person goes out there and makes it happen, but they would be fighting an incredibly uphill battle.
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To be fair, you need Wine as well on Apple. Also Germany is dumping Windows for Linux and LibreOffice. China has it's own Linux distro as well. China has Kylin Linux, and North Korea has Red Star, so I wouldn't say no one.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Not surprising at all...test it in one market, see how it goes then force it on the world...

Microsoft stoops to new low with ads in Windows 11, as PC Manager tool suggests your system needs ‘repairing’ if you don’t use Bing​

https://www.techradar.com/computing...r-system-needs-repairing-if-you-dont-use-bing
Click to expand...
L O L! I have literally never heard of that app and have no reason to use it now. In fact, I think that article is the best advertisement for that app, since now people will be curious and try it out. Also, I have yet to see a reason to fully switch to Linux and I had tried about 4 years ago but, it did not remain solid nor a good overall experience. I suppose if all my games were steam only but, they are not even close to that.
 
paradoxical said:
Two things: Apple will usually not repair your machine but give you a brand new one. If they do repair them, they tend to just replace half of the computer (display or mainboard/battery) which effectively gives you new hardware. Second, even if they did repair the old ones, I believe the Apple Silicon machines easily have a 7-10 year lifespan for general office use (not engineers or devs) except for the battery (which is covered by warranty). So yes, I consider a $1400 Macbook air initial purchase plus $990 an excellent value to completely solve all hardware needs for most positions for a decade.
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no, they dont give you a new machine, they repair it. yes it may sometimes be a new lid or mobo, but ist not a new machine. our m1's from 2020 are already starting to crap out, we have several thousand of them in our fleet. battery and all other repairs are only covered IF youve bought apple care. otherwise that new lid is gonna be $500+(theyre 670CAN, almost half our Edu. price)....
but this is all getting very off topic...
 
pendragon1 said:
no, they dont give you a new machine, they repair it. yes it may sometimes be a new lid or mobo, but ist not a new machine. our m1's from 2020 are already starting to crap out, we have several thousand of them in our fleet. battery and all other repairs are only covered IF youve bought apple care. otherwise that new lid is gonna be $500+(theyre 670CAN, almost half our Edu. price)....
but this is all getting very off topic...
Click to expand...

There are only a few components to a modern macbook that are serviceable; even for keyboard defects they just swap out the whole bottom case (technically it's called the upper case, but it's the lower half of the laptop). Sure, it's not a "new machine" but it's basically a new machine for all intents and purposes. Plus, now that they made their $99 warranty infintely extendable if they don't stock parts for your machine anymore they will replace it with a similar make. For example, Apple is no longer repairing certain Intel MBP configurations but is offering Apple Silicon models instead. If you had purchased Applecare on your 4.5 year old 2020 M1s, they would be getting brand new lower cases which include a motherboard, battery, etc - ready for another 4.5 years of service before the battery craps out again. And don't forget, Applecare is more than a warranty - it is accidental damage protection as well.

Yea but in 10 years you could buy another Macbook for the money you spend on AppleCare+. At what point does it warrant that much money when you could at some point just buy another machine? How reliable are Apple products if buying warranty is such a good deal? The whole industry only offers a 1 year when you buy their products, but buying warranty is a rip off.
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In 10 years, Apple would have already likely replaced my old outdated Mac with a fresh new one since they don't stock parts that long - but they still honor the warranty. Anyway, to the best of my knowledge this is the first time in the industry that a first party infinite warranty has been offered, so I am curious to see how it unfolds both for Apple and the consumer as time goes on. Apple must feel very confident in their reliability stats to think they can make money off this.
 
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paradoxical said:
There are only a few components to a modern macbook that are serviceable; even for keyboard defects they just swap out the whole bottom case (technically it's called the upper case, but it's the lower half of the laptop). Sure, it's not a "new machine" but it's basically a new machine for all intents and purposes. Plus, now that they made their $99 warranty infintely extendable if they don't stock parts for your machine anymore they will replace it with a similar make. For example, Apple is no longer repairing certain Intel MBP configurations but is offering Apple Silicon models instead. If you had purchased Applecare on your 4.5 year old 2020 M1s, they would be getting brand new lower cases which include a motherboard, battery, etc - ready for another 4.5 years of service before the battery craps out again. And don't forget, Applecare is more than a warranty - it is accidental damage protection as well.
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you think i dont know all this when i just said we have thousands in our fleet?!
like i said waaay off topic. wanna argue more, start a thread for it.
one was made...
https://hardforum.com/threads/why-d...n-support-in-businesses-than-windows.2035018/
 
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DukenukemX said:
ChromeOS... sure, but Android? Pure Android doesn't force anything. The moment you install Google apps is when things require you to sign in.
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Not true, unless your device is registered and approved by Google as an authorized and verified Android platform Google doesn’t let you even sign into Google websites from an Android device. They started that back in 2018, there is a work around if you register yourself with an XDA developer account and register your ROM files with Google to get them certified, but if you don’t then Google locks you out.
Sometimes you may get lucky and a redirect to this message.
https://www.google.com/android/uncertified/warningauto
But usually not, and you are instead just redirected back to the login page as if you hadn’t just clicked the login button and entered your username and password.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Which most phones in the US and EU come with Google apps installed........
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And yet, the fact remains that it's still not the OS doing the spying, and AOSP still exists.

Lakados said:
Not true, unless your device is registered and approved by Google as an authorized and verified Android platform Google doesn’t let you even sign into Google websites from an Android device.
Click to expand...

https://microg.org/
 
ManofGod said:
Also, I have yet to see a reason to fully switch to Linux and I had tried about 4 years ago but, it did not remain solid nor a good overall experience. I suppose if all my games were steam only but, they are not even close to that.
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Don't switch to Linux. Get an application that removes ads and keep using Windows 11. Linux isn't dumbed down enough for the general public to use. At some point Linux will be perfectly able to replace Windows, but at the same time the ads Microsoft will impose will be more difficult to remove. Windows won't get better, but Linux will.
 
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