i1Display pro Calibration problems with LED Benq BL3201PT 4K

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Sephrioth

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I have a problem calibrating the Benq BL3201PT with the i1Display pro. This calibrator supports LED backlights. I have tried almost every option including other backlight settings than White LED. I have tried Manual/Automaic and different color tone settings. But it just does not work for this monitor. I get light purple or greenish grays instead of natural ones and also the dark grays are distorted. The monitor defaults (with G and B on 93%) are far better than the calibrated results. I tried the i1Display pro on a old DELL U2711 and it seems to work fine there.

Is there a better calibrator solution out there that does work with this type of screen? Is the calibrator not working correctly? I have tried it out with my old DELL 2711 Wide gamut display with wide gamut CCFL. For this display the grays seem to remain natural (no color shifts) after calibration.
 
You're gonna get much better feedback if you post this question over on the AVS display calibration forum.

My guess is that the spectral signature of your display exploits the deviation of your colorimeter ("calibrator" is someone who calibrates) from the standard observer functions. If you're able to find a correction matrix suitable for your display, that may help. Else, you may need to rent a spectroradiometer and profile your colorimeter against it.

If none of this makes sense, read through this white paper.

But be sure to post on the avs forum, you'll get much better results there.
 
spacediver said:
You're gonna get much better feedback if you post this question over on the AVS display calibration forum.

My guess is that the spectral signature of your display exploits the deviation of your colorimeter ("calibrator" is someone who calibrates) from the standard observer functions. If you're able to find a correction matrix suitable for your display, that may help. Else, you may need to rent a spectroradiometer and profile your colorimeter against it.

If none of this makes sense, read through this white paper.

But be sure to post on the avs forum, you'll get much better results there.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, I will post my question on that forum.
 
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I have a problem calibrating the Benq BL3201PT with the i1Display pro. This calibrator supports LED backlights. I have tried almost every option including other backlight settings than White LED. I have tried Manual/Automaic and different color tone settings. But it just does not work for this monitor. I get light purple or greenish grays instead of natural ones and also the dark grays are distorted
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We must analyze the problem further. Apart from the whitepoint itself it seems that the greybalance is not ideal (dark grays are distorted) - although the i1 Display Pro has a very good repsonse in the shadows. Which calibration software have you used? What was the target tone curve ("gamma")? There could be nonlinearities that lie between the supporting points for building up the vcgt (which is then loaded into the videocard LUT).

Regarding the whitepoint: In contrast to popular belief the correct target doesn't exist. Effects such as color constancy of the visual system, observer metamerism (you don't see like the standard observer) and the actual ambient/ color matching conditions have a great influence. First you should give you and your eyes time to adapt. If this doesn't help you can simply choose an other whitepoint (which will be automatically taken into consideration when the profile is created). This doesn't compensate for a bad greybalance of course - but even an accurate spectral characterization or correction matrix (which only provides a linear transformation of the measurement values) wouldn't help to improve it.
 
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Sailor_Moon said:
We must analyze the problem further. Apart from the whitepoint itself it seems that the greybalance is not ideal (dark grays are distorted) - although the i1 Display Pro has a very good repsonse in the shadows. Which calibration software have you used? What was the target tone curve ("gamma")? There could be nonlinearities that lie between the supporting points for building up the vcgt (which is then loaded into the videocard LUT).
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Light gray is greenish or sometimes purple while dark tones can be purple grays. It is not a problem of subjective vision. The other monitor I calibrated with the i1 Display Pro has natural grays. I used the default software: i1 Profiler. Gamma target was the default 2.2 as far as I can tell, with the monitor set on gamma preset 3 (default). I tried different settings for white point from D50 to D65 that all result in a distorted grayscale.
 
You could try Argyll (most simply via dispcalgui) to enhance the linearization. The generic W-LED characterization is adequate. Please keep in mind that in your configuration (WLED and WCG-CCFL screen) a calibration based on the same whitepoint target will almost certainly not lead to a visual match of neutral tones in parallel operation. But based on your description the main problem is the greybalance itself.
 
I assume you looking at lagom test patterns?

How serious are the tints? sometimes tints are not avoidable, my devices have slight tints if I look really close, and I have run a spectro + i1 display pro with dispcalgui on them, If you get black crush then I guess the software did't spend enough time on it as MVA black level go way low.

Try dispcalgui, turn on the interactive display calibration and tune the monitor OSD menu before calibration starts, calibration speed set to low. The w-led edr works fine for my w-led device

AVS people aren't really into monitor or computer/windows cms~.
 
I'd also suggest argyll and dispcalgui. I had issues using the bundled software that resulted in odd tinting that I didn't get using argyll/dispcalgui.
 
I have tried Dispcalgui and it works somewhat better than i1 Profiler software. The grayscale is not distorted anymore. Light grays and dark grays have no color bias. But I still can't get a good calibration result. On my old U2711 Dispcalgui works good as far as i can tell (in combination with the wide gamut profile). But on this new BENQ I think the display is at fault. Greens are too yellow, Yellow is to green and red is too orange. No matter what settings I try, and I have tried loads, I get similar results. White Point from 5000 to 6000 makes the screen warmer but does not remove the slight color cast. The previous BENQ I had was even worse, so maybe there are also better samples out there. Or could it be the LED backlight?
 
Sephrioth said:
I have tried Dispcalgui and it works somewhat better than i1 Profiler software. The grayscale is not distorted anymore. Light grays and dark grays have no color bias. But I still can't get a good calibration result. On my old U2711 Dispcalgui works good as far as i can tell (in combination with the wide gamut profile). But on this new BENQ I think the display is at fault. Greens are too yellow, Yellow is to green and red is too orange. No matter what settings I try, and I have tried loads, I get similar results. White Point from 5000 to 6000 makes the screen warmer but does not remove the slight color cast. The previous BENQ I had was even worse, so maybe there are also better samples out there. Or could it be the LED backlight?
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I'm actually 99% sure you're comparing it to your old wide-gamut U2711 which has woefully oversaturated colors. The likely scenario is that your BL3201PT is fine.

Calibrate to D65 or 6500k, brightness to 100-120 cd/m2 and set your gamma to sRGB or BT.1886 or linear 2.2 gamma.

I'm expecting a large user error/you don't now what accurate color looks like.

I hope you're also deleting your older ICC profiles before recalibrating....
 
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try compare photo in color managed image viewer, windows viewer works if the ICC is loaded correctly, but untagged image can screw the thing. irfan viewer or PS need some setup but they ensure everything is correctly managed.
 
Nikyo said:
I'm actually 99% sure you're comparing it to your old wide-gamut U2711 which has woefully oversaturated colors. The likely scenario is that your BL3201PT is fine.

Calibrate to D65 or 6500k, brightness to 100-120 cd/m2 and set your gamma to sRGB or BT.1886 or linear 2.2 gamma.

I'm expecting a large user error/you don't now what accurate color looks like.

I hope you're also deleting your older ICC profiles before recalibrating....
Click to expand...

I have thought about that too. For years I have used these wide gamut monitors, and I actually prefer the slightly more saturated colors. I feel images are just too dull on default sRGB saturation. I believe a lot of televisions, monitors and mobile devices have also opted for more saturated colors in the past decade because of consumer preference.

So what should one in the graphics industry really use as a baseline? Use a 'dull' sRGB color spectrum and make your images themselves more saturated. Then you get the problem that those images will be over-saturated on a lot of consumer displays. Or use a monitor with higher color saturation and run the risk of getting washed out images on regular 'well-calibrated' sRGB devices?

I have ordered the LG 31MU97 4k monitor. I believe that monitor also has an IPS display but a different panel from the BenQ. Then I can compare two LED displays. Or was the Samsung U32D970Q the better option (double the price of the BENQ or LG though).
 
My experience was that I was able to see details better after turning everything down on my TV's and monitors and waiting for a while to get used to it.

It's not a response to demand because most people don't even change their default settings. Over saturating colors helps compensate for a poorer quality screen and makes them *pop* while on display.
 
Sephrioth said:
I have thought about that too. For years I have used these wide gamut monitors, and I actually prefer the slightly more saturated colors. I feel images are just too dull on default sRGB saturation. I believe a lot of televisions, monitors and mobile devices have also opted for more saturated colors in the past decade because of consumer preference.

So what should one in the graphics industry really use as a baseline? Use a 'dull' sRGB color spectrum and make your images themselves more saturated. Then you get the problem that those images will be over-saturated on a lot of consumer displays. Or use a monitor with higher color saturation and run the risk of getting washed out images on regular 'well-calibrated' sRGB devices?

I have ordered the LG 31MU97 4k monitor. I believe that monitor also has an IPS display but a different panel from the BenQ. Then I can compare two LED displays. Or was the Samsung U32D970Q the better option (double the price of the BENQ or LG though).
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The Samsung sucks according to =DEAD='s review. The LG on the other hand was quite favorable in Daywalker's review over at Prohardver: http://prohardver.hu/teszt/lg_31um97_digital_cinema_4k_ips_monitor/bevezeto_kulso.html

Keep in mind it's like 17:9 instead of 16:9.

I think bright oversaturated colors tend to be easier to see on mobile devices, but they probably also excite people to some extent. I remember the Nexus 5 was pretty damn well accurate out of the box with it's IPS screen, but people were complaining that the display was undersaturated. Then there's devices like the PS vita where people find the OLED version to be superior to the IPS despite the the former's 9000k color temperature and wildly oversatured colors.

I personally don't understand the appeal - colors are too bright, skin tones are too red - blah.
 
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The LG 31UM97 has a lot better colors than the Benq. The Benq's I returned always had a very green hue. Even with a lot of adjustment of the green and the blue channel and calibration the display would still be slightly green in the whites and grays. When I would turn down green even more the monitor became too red. Red was also very orange, and cool green was to warm (yellowish green).

The LG 31UM97 has reds that are red, magenta is not too warm, and cool greens that display correctly. I like this display a lot more. Unfortunately I received a version with light yellow discoloration on the bottom and the right and some on the left. But the panel itself has better color/image quality. Maybe I just had some bad Benq displays and there are good ones out there too since the first was a lot worse than the second.
 
The 31UM97 is a wide gamut monitor which needs to be set to the srGB mode to display colours properly (source) when not colour managed.

Sephrioth said:
I feel images are just too dull on default sRGB saturation.
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How can consumer media look too dull on a standard gamut display when consumer media is created for and with (in theory) standard gamut displays? An accurate monitor displays colours the way the creators intended them to look, so how can they be too dull (rhetorical question). Perhaps it is time for you to start appreciating the time and effort people put into making their content look a certain way. Contrary to many ignorant and under-appreciative gamers beliefs, games colours are not chosen at random.

If you like wide gamut monitors puke green filter, sun burned and Jersey Shore'd skin tones that's fine, but don't expect people to take you seriously. Left gross wide gamut vs standard gamut.
 
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NCX said:
The 31UM97 is a wide gamut monitor which needs to be set to the srGB mode to display colours properly (source) when not colour managed.



How can consumer media look too dull on a standard gamut display when consumer media is created for and with (in theory) standard gamut displays? An accurate monitor displays colours the way the creators intended them to look, so how can they be too dull (rhetorical question). Perhaps it is time for you to start appreciating the time and effort people put into making their content look a certain way. Contrary to many ignorant and under-appreciative gamers beliefs, games colours are not chosen at random.

If you like wide gamut monitors puke green filter, sun burned and Jersey Shore'd skin tones that's fine, but don't expect people to take you seriously. Left gross wide gamut vs standard gamut.
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I do not appreciate the condescending tone you use. This is no way to interact with anyone. I am a professional graphic designer and a 3D character artist. I know how much skill, perseverance, time and effort it takes to create graphic content.

I also know sRGB is the default color gamut and I make content for multiple consumer screens. My personal preference is just for more saturated colors (not necessarily the full wide color gamut, but just somewhat more saturated.) The Benq screens where too biased to green, this had nothing to do with the color gamut (Yellow and green where too prominent). Red should not be orange, yellow should not have a green cast. I probably just had bad monitors since the first one was a lot worse than the second one. There are so many different screens out there with a different color spectrum, different white point, content should look as good as possible on each one.
 
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Sephrioth said:
I am a professional graphic designer and a 3D character artist.
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And you don;t own a hardware colorimeter? That's pretty much standard equipment for graphics work.
Set displays to sRGB. Calibrate to sRGB. Unless you happen to have an entire workchain that correctly handles Adobe RGB (or something like Rec.2020 if yor're working in the UHDTV world) then you'll need a spectrophotometer or a different colorimeter (to account for the different primaries).
 
EdZ said:
And you don;t own a hardware colorimeter? That's pretty much standard equipment for graphics work.
Set displays to sRGB. Calibrate to sRGB. Unless you happen to have an entire workchain that correctly handles Adobe RGB (or something like Rec.2020 if yor're working in the UHDTV world) then you'll need a spectrophotometer or a different colorimeter (to account for the different primaries).
Click to expand...

Not everyone in the graphics field has a colorimeter, or calibrates their displays correctly. I have disregarded proper calibration of my displays for some time due to various reasons, one of them being the mediocre state of consumer colorimeters 5+ years ago (especially for calibrating wide gamut displays). I opted for just manual calibration and using multiple displays.

At some moment I just got tired of returning display after display because of problems ranging from gradient banding issues in 24" and 27" monitors at the time, to low contrast displays to yellow spots, or uneven whites from left to right. Years waiting for a proper display, and I just wanted to get a larger than 24" monitor. When I finally had some screens without too many problems (IPS good contrast and uniformity): DELL u2711, I just accepted they were wide gamut. I would rather have had proper sRGB screens at the time (But there was a wide gamut craze in the larger displays going on).

After trying to get this wide gamut display to proper sRGB (without much luck), because the colors were just incorrect in sRGB modus and the lack of a proper wide gamut consumer clorimeter. I just got used to the wider gamut on my main work monitors and disregarded it (which was rather stupid I know). After that I mainly focused on 3D modeling instead of colored graphics, so it was less important. Since then I have not updated my monitors because I wanted to wait for a proper and afordable 4K screen (no IGZO, 60hz support).
 
Both srgb and argb mode of the u2711 are really crappy, way too much gamut clipping. In srgb mode, after calibration srgb coverage is around 85-90.., argb mode calibrated argb coverage ~80s at best.

Though it is not a ezio/nec, so I don't complain. And calibrated color is quite neutral so desktop color is pretty good. In contrast, the saturation of the RGB LED screen at native gamut next to it hurts my eye(dizziness sort of).
 
baii said:
Both srgb and argb mode of the u2711 are really crappy, way too much gamut clipping. In srgb mode, after calibration srgb coverage is around 85-90.., argb mode calibrated argb coverage ~80s at best.

Though it is not a ezio/nec, so I don't complain. And calibrated color is quite neutral so desktop color is pretty good. In contrast, the saturation of the RGB LED screen at native gamut next to it hurts my eye(dizziness sort of).
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What RGB LED Pannel? The LG 31MU97?
 
Laptop, precision premier color, equivalent to elitebook dream color.
 
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