Are HTPC TV Tuners better than the tuners on the TV themselves?

[Blazestorm]

Well I've been wondering this, I live in a somewhat rural area blocked by a lot of trees/mountains in certain areas so antenna reception has been pretty poor.

I bought a cheapish indoor antenna from ebay and was able to pickup 10-12 channels with the tuner built-into my TV. They are all pretty lame, few are in foreign languages etc. I was reading those guides that show your "expected" Antenna reception and the stations I get with my built-in tuner are in the same direction/distance as the stations I'd actually bother to watch (Fox and some others). But for whatever reason I don't get them.

I'm not all concerned with recording this TV or anything like that, just simply watching free TV. It's a 42" Panasonic Plasma... if that matters? I don't know, I haven't dealt with tuners at all to be honest. We have Satellite boxes / DirecTV for the rest of the rooms in the house but I'm cheap/lazy.

So I'm wondering... will a TV tuner I install in my HTPC with the same antenna produce any better results, or do I just need a better / outdoor antenna?

 

[sirmonkey1985]

probably wouldnt improve anything.. id say try an out door antenna.. depending on how many walls the signal has to go through and what thickness/building materials might have a bigger effect on quality/range..

 

[SJetski71]

The tuner in your TV is probably above average, panasonic isn't known for using junky parts in their TV sets btw. You can increase it's effectiveness simply by running a straight line with no splitters etc etc.

Follow the instructions at antennaweb.org to see most of the TV channels available in your area, then you can figure out what kind of antenna you need. Some people prefer to use TV fool so you can try there too.

Amazon (and ebay sometimes) has tons of low cost outdoor antennas, a very small investment that'll pay itself off many times over. There are even antenna that specialize with obstructions + long distance, and other antennas that are better for no-obstructions + mega long distance. Here's an
Eagle aspen DB2, add a small "qualified for free shipping" filler item to get the price up to $25 total, and it gets shipped for free. Not the best in class but it would be really hard to find something better for $25. You can find better antennas though if you open your wallet just a little bit more.

Remember, if you get the type of antenna appropriate for your area, and a better model, you'll have more channels, this alone is worth the extra cost of a better antenna. Here's the next model up from the DB2 i linked, the DB4 for only $38. Or the grandaddy DB8 for around $60 if you combine it with Bing cashback. I hear the channel master models 4221 ($34),, 4222 ($30) and 4224 ($40) are greats bang for the buck because they have high sensitivity and are more "omni directional" making them less of a hassle to point correctly.

Here's an interesting 9 page discussion and some charts: http://www.dtvusaforum.com/articles/4562-ebay-antenna-reviews-ratings-discussion-10.html

If you need something for deep fringe areas far from the transmitters then you might need something like the antennacraft MXU59 ($54), CM 4228 or 91XG. The CM 4228 can be both directional and omnidirectional, which probably makes it one of the best choices. Here's a discussion of the CM 4228 vs the 91XG: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=806976

And everyone swears that adding a pre-amp helps a lot: http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-AP-8700-Pre-Amplifier-Antenna/dp/B001DFZ5EW

In case you haven't figured it out already, I recommend an outdoor antenna all the way, but if someone totally insists on an indoor antenna, then they'd have a hard time finding something better than the quantum ANT-102

Oh, by the way, you caught me at the right time since i was already researching to buy a new antenna, so i figured i would share while i was researching . Haven't made up my mind yet but the channel master 4221/4222/4224 looks interesting, i'm still waiting to see if there's something better/more appropriate for me though. Hope you don't mind me bouncing some ideas around in your thread, it helps keeping track of it all, and maybe give you some ideas in the meantime.

 

[Blazestorm]

Haha no problem, I haven't read through the whole post yet but I will shortly.

I figured the tuners in the PC themselves was mainly meant for recording, not for just receiving channels if you already had a TV.

It does look like I need to do more research and buy a better antenna first

But this for example...

uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE, WA 263° 17.1 39
uhf KUNS-DT 51.1 IND BELLEVUE, WA 263° 17.0 50
uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE, WA 263° 16.9 48

I get channel 51.1, but not 7 or 5... the angle is the same, all are UHF and all about the same distance (17 mi)

 

[beowulf7]

I have the CM 4228 (not 4228HD) and it works great. I mounted it in the attic and not the roof, so despite having to go through the roof, I pretty much am pulling 80-90% signal strength; the transmitters are located ~35 mi. away. It does help that I don't have tall trees blocking and my house is 2 stories. I don't use a pre-amp.

 

[SJetski71]

I have the CM 4228 (not 4228HD) and it works great. I mounted it in the attic and not the roof, so despite having to go through the roof, I pretty much am pulling 80-90% signal strength; the transmitters are located ~35 mi. away. It does help that I don't have tall trees blocking and my house is 2 stories. I don't use a pre-amp.

I hear the older model you have works better than the 4228HD model. Something about poor build quality on the 4228HD where everything is bent and setup crooked which messes up the reception.


beowulf did you see the hot pre-amp deal i posted in the sticky thread above? The auction expired but he never sold out, i'd expect him to relist the rest of them soon (?)

Well here's the expired listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/VHF-UHF-Low-Noise-Pre-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ170468841354

And here's his account where he would re-post it (if he ever does): http://shop.ebay.com/bergevin1234/m.html

 

[Blazestorm]

Well I ended up getting that indoor antenna and left with close to the same results, looked like the issue is more about what's blocking my path... I put it on a high shelf and aimed it at an angle a little bit and get 50-60% strength on Fox channel 13 which according to Antenna web or something was a channel I was never going to get... which still doesn't make sense to me.

But I get HD OTA now which is cool, only 720p and pretty compressed but it's better than nothing .. I got TitanTV setup with the 5 channels I do get fairly consistently and can check for shows on there... I'm just in a shitty place for indoor antennas I guess... haha...

 

[beowulf7]

I hear the older model you have works better than the 4228HD model. Something about poor build quality on the 4228HD where everything is bent and setup crooked which messes up the reception.


beowulf did you see the hot pre-amp deal i posted in the sticky thread above? The auction expired but he never sold out, i'd expect him to relist the rest of them soon (?)

Well here's the expired listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/VHF-UHF-Low-Noise-Pre-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ170468841354

And here's his account where he would re-post it (if he ever does): http://shop.ebay.com/bergevin1234/m.html

Yeah, I read on the Amazon reviews of the 4228HD that it's worse than the original 4228. The 4228 I have is a fugly antenna, no hiding that fact, but now that it's hidden up in my attic, who cares how it looks, LOL. For about a year, I had it downstairs right next to my TV along the fireplace, which was remarkably facing the proper direction. People commented on how much of an eyesore it was. After I traced out the mess of co-ax cables in the attic and got a 4-way splitter, I relocated it upstairs.

yes, I saw the deal you posted above. I sent my friend the eBay link to the $25 ANT-102 indoor antenna you mentioned (the original link expired but I found a new auction with the same stuff). I don't know if he'll need a pre-amp.

 

[SJetski71]

yes, I saw the deal you posted above. I sent my friend the eBay link to the $25 ANT-102 indoor antenna you mentioned (the original link expired but I found a new auction with the same stuff). I don't know if he'll need a pre-amp.

Don't think he'll need a pre-amp for the ant-102 since it has a strong amp built into it already.

That stuff is confusing, amp, pre-amp, but they both amplify the signal ? What the heck is the difference i ask?

I think an amp amplifies the signal outward to the transmission towers, while a pre-amp amplifies the line signal loss from splitters and long RG6 runs (?) Either way i don't think your friend would need either of them, unless he's sharing the antenna and running long coax runs with splitters.

i guess i'll google search it before i install my next antenna.

 

[beowulf7]

Don't think he'll need a pre-amp for the ant-102 since it has a strong amp built into it already.

That stuff is confusing, amp, pre-amp, but they both amplify the signal ? What the heck is the difference i ask?

I think an amp amplifies the signal outward to the transmission towers, while a pre-amp amplifies the line signal loss from splitters and long RG6 runs (?) Either way i don't think your friend would need either of them, unless he's sharing the antenna and running long coax runs with splitters.

i guess i'll google search it before i install my next antenna.

I figured a pre-amp is just another amplifier to give the signal a further boost if the amplified antenna's signal isn't strong enough.

I haven't heard yet from my friend after I sent him the Ebay link to that $25 indoor antenna. He has a $50 budget for an indoor antenna, so that should do it and change to spare for a pre-amp if needed.

I like how the CM 4228 I have requires no amplification, so no power being consumed by it.

If you can get the 4228, get it. It's fugly, but it works great. I read a review on Crutchfield that some people were able to pull in a signal from some 80-90 mi. away! Granted, w/ an amp.