pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
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- 53,241
the "final thoughts" section is 2min long....Somebody TLDW this for me?
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the "final thoughts" section is 2min long....Somebody TLDW this for me?
The lack of hand controllers for it and leaving no option for games other than 2D iPhone games is stupid. Even though it's an amazing device, the cold hard truth is that video games and porn are what drive VR tech. The former is severely lacking in any real capacity on Apple's goggles, and Apple doesn't allow the latter.Doesn't look like the Vision Pro is selling well after all. Ain't the only thing falling sharply for Apple recently.
https://www.macrumors.com/2024/04/23/apple-cuts-vision-pro-shipments/
"Orders have been scaled back before the Vision Pro has launched in markets outside of the United States, which Kuo says is a sign that demand in the U.S. has "fallen sharply beyond expectations." As a result, Apple is expected to take a "conservative view" of headset demand when the Vision Pro launches in additional countries."
From a really recent review, it has a lot of problems. Mutahar explains some things that reviewers seem to have left out. Like there's no multi-monitor while using the Vision Pro, without paying extra for an app that does this. It also doesn't feed the Macbooks audio to the headsets speakers, which means you're not hearing anything using use the Vision Pro to see the Macbook. He also points out that the device needs a Macbook for use for productivity, while it should be able to do it alone. It does have an M2 after all. The death of the Vision Pro is that it doesn't support games from Steam and etc. The Meta Quest 3 gets mentioned a lot because it's open and does support multiple VR standards.The lack of hand controllers for it and leaving no option for games other than 2D iPhone games is stupid. Even though it's an amazing device, the cold hard truth is that video games and porn are what drive VR tech. The former is severely lacking in any real capacity on Apple's goggles, and Apple doesn't allow the latter.
From a really recent review, it has a lot of problems. Mutahar explains some things that reviewers seem to have left out. Like there's no multi-monitor while using the Vision Pro, without paying extra for an app that does this. It also doesn't feed the Macbooks audio to the headsets speakers, which means you're not hearing anything using use the Vision Pro to see the Macbook. He also points out that the device needs a Macbook for use for productivity, while it should be able to do it alone. It does have an M2 after all. The death of the Vision Pro is that it doesn't support games from Steam and etc. The Meta Quest 3 gets mentioned a lot because it's open and does support multiple VR standards.
View: https://youtu.be/gSJ8XdoiGzY?si=ZToDiiOQWvbfUSxY
I've said it above and I'll say it here, this device is a competitor to the Hololense 2, this is not a consumer product.I really don't think the Vision Pro suffers because of one virtual Mac monitor, or because it doesn't have Steam games. Rather, it's that it's $3,500, visionOS is still rudimentary, and the reliance on gesture control means that you don't get physical controllers that would be helpful for some games.
Apple mainly needs to produce a lower-cost model, reduce the weight, and flesh out visionOS so that it's more useful for productivity. It'd be a much easier sell if it was $1,500 (or even $2,000) and comfortable to wear for long periods.
I really thought you were walking around with a powerful computer on your face with a access to full MacOS VM possible, but no:He also points out that the device needs a Macbook for use for productivity, while it should be able to do it alone. It does have an M2 after all.
Apple want it to be too, Disney+ had a visionOS APP on launch for a reason:I've said it above and I'll say it here, this device is a competitor to the Hololense 2, this is not a consumer product.
Disney purchased a crapload of them for their sets, if you've seen their behind-the-scenes filming stuff on their TV shows they are using virtual stages and to build the scenes they have people walking around with iPads to their faces as an AR display, while they give directions to artists to move things or change colors and whatnot.I really thought you were walking around with a powerful computer on your face with a access to full MacOS VM possible, but no:
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/119607
For example, it does not seem to be able to run FInal Cut pro, you need to have an Intel cpu that can run steamVR, in 2023 there was a lot of rumors that it would be able to run it...
Apple want it to be too, Disney+ had a visionOS APP on launch for a reason:
https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/16/24039960/apple-vision-pro-3d-movies-disney-plus
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024...-experiences-launching-with-apple-vision-pro/
“Apple Vision Pro is the ultimate entertainment device,” said Greg Joswiak, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Marketing.
This is almost a dev kit like the first Oculus rifts people bought, but there is a future consumer one aimed to be and this being its ancestor., there will be a non-pro version if things goes well I feel like.
Why an Intel and not an M-Series based machine? Someone at Apple screwed up.I really thought you were walking around with a powerful computer on your face with a access to full MacOS VM possible, but no:
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/119607
For example, it does not seem to be able to run FInal Cut pro, you need to have an Intel cpu that can run steamVR, in 2023 there was a lot of rumors that it would be able to run it...
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr/tree/master/binWhy an Intel and not an M-Series based machine? Someone at Apple screwed up.
No it works on any of the M series ones using Screen Mirroring, not sure what’s up there unless it’s some specific feature that is lacking…Why an Intel and not an M-Series based machine? Someone at Apple screwed up.
Which would have been fine... if Apple had sold it as such. If this was a "hey here's a dev kit/industrial product for people to start working with," it would be hard to give them crap. The price is in line with that and ya, this stuff has to start somewhere. But that wasn't how it was sold, it was sold as a consumer device, that you'd want to use while you did face time, and cooked things and so on and so forth. It was "hey everyone, buy this and use it for your ever day!" Hence, people (like me) shit on it.I've said it above and I'll say it here, this device is a competitor to the Hololense 2, this is not a consumer product.
Consumers who purchased the Vision Pro fall under the same category as general consumers who purchased the Apple Studio Display.
They aren’t any more or less fragile than the others, but I have no clue what Apple was thinking with the launch of these things, it’s very half-assed.Which would have been fine... if Apple had sold it as such. If this was a "hey here's a dev kit/industrial product for people to start working with," it would be hard to give them crap. The price is in line with that and ya, this stuff has to start somewhere. But that wasn't how it was sold, it was sold as a consumer device, that you'd want to use while you did face time, and cooked things and so on and so forth. It was "hey everyone, buy this and use it for your ever day!" Hence, people (like me) shit on it.
As a consumer device it wasn't going to make waves because it lacks a killer app. Price aside, there's just no reason to use one. All their marketing was "do what you do with your phone or tablet... but IN AR!!!!" Ya well, nobody is going to do that shit long term, it is too annoying. While having your recipe just floating in your vision may sound cool and cyberpunk, in real life you are going to find it to be way more work and less comfort to put on the headset so what you'll end up doing is just tossing your tablet (or cookbook) on the counter and using that instead.
They need to have something that you can ONLY do in AR/VR, or at least that is way better, and that people are interested in. Then and only then do we see these take off on a consumer scale. Otherwise, it remains a toy like the other VR headsets out there and something that only some people are interested in. Particularly at the price.
As for industrial/commercial uses, while I've no doubt Hollywood will use them since they seem to be all super machead types, I have to wonder in other areas given their supposed fragility. It sounds like they crack and scratch fairly easy, which isn't going to be so great on a job site or in a factory.
How do they compare to the Hololens? As you said, that's the real competition for it.They aren’t any more or less fragile than the others, but I have no clue what Apple was thinking with the launch of these things, it’s very half-assed.
That really isn’t the main issue. It weighs the same as other VR and AR headsets. The problem is, despite Apple’s 8 million patents for this thing, none of them appear to be for comfort. It is the most uncomfortable of all the headsets as the weight is distributed almost entirely on the face, and then there’s the comically bad battery life on top of it (with the obnoxiously proprietary connector).I'll again say it - AR/VR is dead on the mass-market consumer side for as long as it requires giant goggles. Anyone who thinks this will ever take off is just wrong. It's been demonstrated historically for almost 30 years now. You can improve the goggle technology as much as you want. It's irrelevant. People don't want to have to constantly be wearing goggles.
I broadly think what I've bolded describes any VR headset for the mass majority of consumers. Unless you're using it some professional purpose or you're really into some sort of space/flight sim - They're pretty useless because having to wear goggles fundamentally compromises the experience.That really isn’t the main issue. It weighs the same as other VR and AR headsets. The problem is, despite Apple’s 8 million patents for this thing, none of them appear to be for comfort. It is the most uncomfortable of all the headsets as the weight is distributed almost entirely on the face, and then there’s the comically bad battery life on top of it (with the obnoxiously proprietary connector).
It also doesn’t yet appear to have any meaningful apps for it yet, at least not anything that screams “augmented reality.” Not even Apple has their own killer app to show it off. It’s like they 100% relied on other developers to do it for them and nobody has delivered. So far, this thing is turning out to be an astronomically expensive paperweight.
At least other headsets serve a purpose; VR for games (and sadly porn), and HoloLens fit the military and other fields.
I agree with you there. I’m just saying Apple’s take appears to have all the negatives of existing headsets while offering none of the benefits. I guess the only positive here is that Apple can afford to make such blundering mistakes. Also, to release something so niche, so expensive, and so non-consumer in this current economic climate seems so astronomically short-sighted. It’s honestly so stupid that it’s impressive.I broadly think what I've bolded describes any VR headset for the mass majority of consumers. Unless you're using it some professional purpose or you're really into some sort of space/flight sim - They're pretty useless because having to wear goggles fundamentally compromises the experience.
What do you consider mass market? Quests already outsell Xbox.I'll again say it - AR/VR is dead on the mass-market consumer side for as long as it requires giant goggles. Anyone who thinks this will ever take off is just wrong. It's been demonstrated historically for almost 30 years now. You can improve the goggle technology as much as you want. It's irrelevant. People don't want to have to constantly be wearing goggles.
Agreed. Have owned 5x VR headsets, all fun for about 1-2 months, then collect dust. Even with wireless, or single wired headsets now its just too much of an annoyance for no real benefit other than a few minutes of "Oh this is cool". Still no killer app/games making extremely compelling reasons to move to VR. I feel like i actually have to plan and make time out of my normal usage and intentionally use VR versus wanting to use it.I'll again say it - AR/VR is dead on the mass-market consumer side for as long as it requires giant goggles. Anyone who thinks this will ever take off is just wrong. It's been demonstrated historically for almost 30 years now. You can improve the goggle technology as much as you want. It's irrelevant. People don't want to have to constantly be wearing goggles.
I've said this out loud and I'm immediately an old crotchety boomer for saying it. VR is like 3d movies. Anytime you need to put something on your face to enjoy it the appeal will diminish quickly.Agreed. Have owned 5x VR headsets, all fun for about 1-2 months, then collect dust. Even with wireless, or single wired headsets now its just too much of an annoyance for no real benefit other than a few minutes of "Oh this is cool". Still no killer app/games making extremely compelling reasons to move to VR. I feel like i actually have to plan and make time out of my normal usage and intentionally use VR versus wanting to use it.
Crushes it in every measurable fashion and is supposedly even better than what was leaked as the Hololense 3 while being significantly cheaper, as the Hololense 2 can reach $6k each.How do they compare to the Hololens? As you said, that's the real competition for it.
I see the Vision Pro as an investment on Apple's part. It's not trying to have an instant success like the iPhone, or even the iPad; it's about putting everything the company has learned so far into a shipping product so that it can learn from real-world experiences before it really tries to go mainstream.I agree with you there. I’m just saying Apple’s take appears to have all the negatives of existing headsets while offering none of the benefits. I guess the only positive here is that Apple can afford to make such blundering mistakes. Also, to release something so niche, so expensive, and so non-consumer in this current economic climate seems so astronomically short-sighted. It’s honestly so stupid that it’s impressive.
You can sell them at really good price ($200) because you think you will sell the apps-ecosystem, but how many people who bought them use them just once a week after the first 90 days ?What do you consider mass market? Quests already outsell Xbox.
The Python 2, has me reinterested in the game, and my Rift S is old... and the Display port requirement is annoying as finding a good laptop that has one that is actually wired through something other than the tiny onboard GPU is tough.You can sell them at really good price ($200) because you think you will sell the apps-ecosystem, but how many people who bought them use them just once a week after the first 90 days ?
I feel the experience, the magic of the first time you play Elite Dangerous on this, holy mother of god that the new way to game (or do X,Y,Z) burn off and the inconvenience/trouble is not worth it for a lot of people.
Plus the kind of anti-social behavior of shutting your world tend to be be ok for someone that go all-in long dedicated gaming session in a room, car-sim flight-sim the valve type of experience, but for the casual user being sold, for casual quick task ?
At least they have the money to play around with these ideas. Having said that, Apple takes an infamously long time to address issues for even their most popular products.I see the Vision Pro as an investment on Apple's part. It's not trying to have an instant success like the iPhone, or even the iPad; it's about putting everything the company has learned so far into a shipping product so that it can learn from real-world experiences before it really tries to go mainstream.
I suspect the long game involves mixed reality glasses that are practically frictionless — you put them on to accomplish a task without much thought. In between, I can see the 'plain' Vision being thinner, lighter, and considerably more affordable if and when it arrives in a few years.
Living room radio that were not portable (popular handled radio that started in Nazi germany I think), living room record player /phonograph, would have existed before the TVI wonder what the first tvs cost and how that was received by people not targeted by its price point. A new entertainment requiring sitting and staring at a box instead of listening to music/shows anywhere you want.
Oh i was still in the mindset that the radio was stationary, god thats huge, but more so that you didnt have to be in a single spot the whole time, but maybe at least within the room.Living room radio that were not portable (popular handled radio that started in Nazi germany I think), living room record player /phonograph, would have existed before the TV
View attachment 650036
I imagine a lot of it was for the look and they already had smaller one by then, but for a while sitting around the radio, kids on the floor to listen to the soap or the game could have been already 'normal', for the type that bought TVs in the 50s and not seen has particularly strange.god thats huge,
Thats fair. More of an apples and oranges comparison than I originally thought. Very interesting, thank you.I imagine a lot of it was for the look and they already had smaller one by then, but for a while sitting around the radio, kids on the floor to listen to the soap or the game could have been already 'normal', for the type that bought TVs in the 50s and not seen has particularly strange.
there must have been some, movie theater have nothing to fear type, but TV exploded so fast, it was from less than 10% to 85% of house with a tv in the 50s in a short time, the debate would not have been long.
Movie studio/theater rapidly shifted their 4:3 aspect ratio to create a difference from the TV
Well, Quests are extremely popular and heavily played by 12 year olds.You can sell them at really good price ($200) because you think you will sell the apps-ecosystem, but how many people who bought them use them just once a week after the first 90 days ?
I feel the experience, the magic of the first time you play Elite Dangerous on this, holy mother of god that the new way to game (or do X,Y,Z) burn off and the inconvenience/trouble is not worth it for a lot of people (I did not go through resetuping it on my latest build, yet 12 years old me in the 90s would have done a lot to play Elite Dangerous on VR...).
Plus the kind of anti-social behavior of shutting your world tend to be be ok for someone that go all-in long dedicated gaming session in a room, car-sim flight-sim the valve type of experience, but for the casual user being sold, for casual quick task ?
I can't see myself wearing a VR headset while doing chores. Especially the Vision Pro where it's really front heavy.I’ve been using mine daily for a while now. My primary use case has been as the ultimate portable media consumption device while doing chores. When I get home from work, usually an hour and change before my wife due to slightly different schedules, I put on the Vision Pro, start watching some show / video while doing laundry, washing dishes, vacuuming etc. It’s the best portable television screen I could ever hope for.
I also wouldn't feel comfortable wearing a $3,500 headset in public, just because you're asking for someone to steal it.My second use case is during travel - I typically fly somewhere every other week and for me personally, the marketing was absolutely spot on about how nice this thing is on a plane.
Does it pass audio from the MBP to the Vision Pro? According to Mutahar this doesn't work. That would be really stupid if you can't hear audio from the laptop.My third and final use case is when I’m working on my MBP. The continuity feature works very well, and replacing my laptop screen with a ~ 40” rock steady high resolution floating display that’s at my eye level is ergonomically quite nice. This feels super awkward if anybody else is around. However if I’m by myself in some conference room doing 90 minutes of work, Vision Pro acts like a free large 4k screen I can drop right in front of me in an ergonomically optimal position.
I'm trying to picture the scenario of someone pulling that headset off someone's face and running away on a plane....I also wouldn't feel comfortable wearing a $3,500 headset in public, just because you're asking for someone to steal it.