Privacy, why buy Android over iPhone?

[Nebell]

HTC HD2 was my first Android phone somewhere back in 2010. Since then as a personal phone I've only had Androids and never an iPhone.
However I did have a few iPhones as work phones as well as iPad Pro and Mini 6. Both iPads were better than anything Samsung/Huawei/Lenovo/Sony tablets I've had through the years (including latest Tab S8 and Tab S8+).

New iOS features are almost on par with Android when it comes to customization. I can still get most of the customization I need except some gestures, animated wallpaper and Nova launcher. It's only a matter of time before gestures and animated wallpapers show up on iOS.
I currently have Z Fold 4 and it's okay, but nothing spectacular. I'd rather have iPad Mini 6 (superior mini-tablet) and iPhone 14 Pro Max (superior phone).

But the big selling point to go over to Apple is not Apple itself, but GOOGLE.
Who should I trust more? A company who earns money by selling hardware and apps on their store, or a company that is created on ads and tracking people?

 

[UnknownSouljer]

It's up to debate.

To me, if you want to have a smart phone in the 2020's and have some level of data privacy then you really only have two options:
1.) move to an iOS device.
2.) Use a phone on the Android side that has all Google services stripped out.
Both have pros and cons.

I am under no illusion, Apple definitely harvests all of my data, and likely worse, telemetry. But they also tend to black box everything, never sell it to anyone else, and use the info primarily to create future devices or for machine learning purposes. They've also demonstrated multiple times in court that they generally refuse to create backdoors. Unlock devices even with court orders. Or anything of the like.

A stripped Google device is kind of self defeating here, which I would say is it's biggest downside. You're not really getting to choose to not use Google services, merely which ones get to harvest data and not others. After all, what alternative to Google maps is there? Waze, another Google owned company? You may have a different mail app and calendar, etc. But generally the Google service apps are designed to be "so good" that you willingly fork your information over for the convenience of how well they work.

There is also the matter of which device is more secure - and I would argue Apple is better here generally. Even if "just". Though I again recognize that both have been fully hacked in the past. Exploits are found on both devices all the time. However security features and privacy features keep getting introduced with every major iOS update. Whereas Google is mostly just security updates. Privacy only happens when Google 'must' keep up with something that Apple is doing (while still selling all of your data wholesale otherwise).

The other half of the argument boils down to which experience you like more. Android is still the customization king. If you want to or "have to" side load then Android wins. Android also has more apps. Though it's very difficult at best to quantify the actual quality of its larger software options.
However I would say that iOS devices use their resources much better leading to generally a much nicer software and OS experience for longer than Google devices - with some exceptions like Google first party phones (though I've seen zero Google phones even supported past 5 years). It's crazy to think the iPhone 6S launched in 2015 and received updates until 2022. That was an outlier. But even with other "cheap" iPhones (8, SE, etc), their service life is always 5 years and often up to 7.

With phones like the iPhone 13, 14, 15, they've been using essentially the same chips for 3 generations. So I find it very likely that the 13 will be supported for the same service length as the 15. Meaning it will likely be supported for 8 years (total). If you bought an iPhone 13/Pro/Max at launch, it could potentially have the longest service life of any smartphone to date.

So, software side there's more available on the Google side. But speed and support wise I personally feel Apple is ahead by miles.

 

[Aurelius]

HTC HD2 was my first Android phone somewhere back in 2010. Since then as a personal phone I've only had Androids and never an iPhone.
However I did have a few iPhones as work phones as well as iPad Pro and Mini 6. Both iPads were better than anything Samsung/Huawei/Lenovo/Sony tablets I've had through the years (including latest Tab S8 and Tab S8+).

New iOS features are almost on par with Android when it comes to customization. I can still get most of the customization I need except some gestures, animated wallpaper and Nova launcher. It's only a matter of time before gestures and animated wallpapers show up on iOS.
I currently have Z Fold 4 and it's okay, but nothing spectacular. I'd rather have iPad Mini 6 (superior mini-tablet) and iPhone 14 Pro Max (superior phone).

But the big selling point to go over to Apple is not Apple itself, but GOOGLE.
Who should I trust more? A company who earns money by selling hardware and apps on their store, or a company that is created on ads and tracking people?

The privacy concerns about Android phones are somewhat overstated. But yes, if you value privacy without going to extreme lengths, you're probably better off buying Apple devices.

I wouldn't say iOS is quite on par with Android in terms of customization, but it's now close enough that the gap doesn't mean much to many people. You have to pine for third-party launchers or really, really want to put icons anywhere. I'm simplifying a bit, but there's just not as much need to get Android for personalization as there was even a few years ago.

 

[Nebell]

I am under no illusion, Apple definitely harvests all of my data, and likely worse, telemetry. But they also tend to black box everything, never sell it to anyone else, and use the info primarily to create future devices or for machine learning purposes. They've also demonstrated multiple times in court that they generally refuse to create backdoors. Unlock devices even with court orders. Or anything of the like.

This I very much agree with. I'm sure Apple is collecting data as well, but they have refused to make backdoors. Also, iOS being such a closed OS, there is more control and probably because of that better security.
I very much appreciate what Google has done for the world, but I'm not sure I like what they have become.

And when it comes to customization:

I wouldn't say iOS is quite on par with Android in terms of customization, but it's now close enough that the gap doesn't mean much to many people. You have to pine for third-party launchers or really, really want to put icons anywhere. I'm simplifying a bit, but there's just not as much need to get Android for personalization as there was even a few years ago.

I used to root my phones, break Knox, sideload etc but nowadays original ROMs are much better and after I discovered Private DNS I have found out that rooting is not something I need to do.
My customization today is remove all icons from the main screen and put as nice wallpaper as possible. And use gestures to access apps.
iOS also have Swiftkey, my always go to keyboard app (even though iPhone defaults to their own keyboard when typing password, ugh).

 

[TrunksZero]

It's worth noting, that Apple being more secure only really plays out if you don't use iCloud and an Apple account to sync everything across your Apple devices. Soon as you do use that, the argument for security and no back doors completely falls apart.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Apple is collecting data, even when you have it turned off in the phone. They are as bad, but more so they collect it for themselves (as far as we know..) where as we know Googles history of keeping your data private..

Get a rootable phone and install LineageOS on it.

 

[Dan_D]

I simply refuse to buy Apple products. In my experience Apple is one of the worst companies on Earth to deal with. It's culture, the cult-like following of it's customers and it's excessive pricing are all huge turn offs for me.

 

[Mad Maxx]

Privacy is a farce in the Age of the Internet.

The only phone that (maybe) offers a shot at true privacy...

 

[Aurelius]

Apple is collecting data, even when you have it turned off in the phone. They are as bad, but more so they collect it for themselves (as far as we know..) where as we know Googles history of keeping your data private..

Get a rootable phone and install LineageOS on it.

No, Apple isn't as bad... and Google isn't as terrible as it was, for that matter. Equivocation based on broad assumptions doesn't really hold up.

Also: buying a phone on the assumption you'll use Lineage (or any custom ROM) isn't a great idea. It works... until you find that a must-have app doesn't like custom ROMs (tools like Magisk aren't a surefire fix), or the latest ROM is buggy, or it turns out there's not enough community members to support your phone as long as you'd like. And have fun getting the device fixed under warranty if there's a fault that prevents you restoring the official firmware!

 

[Vermillion]

I'll give my 2 cents.

I'm an Android user and Google user. My wife has an iPhone and my 3 kids have iPads. My eldest has an Android phone that is locked down.

In all honesty they both suck. Google is Google. You know they scan your pictures and things. You know that data is used to bring you benefits like facial search in the Google Photos app. You also know that data is used by them to make money. So in cases like this one you have to decide where your comfort level lies.

Make no mistake though Apple does their own shady shit. For example Apple scans photos too but if you believe they don't use any of their data to make money well I have a bridge to sell you. I also love how their vaunted walled garden is so shitty when it comes to apps that somehow bypass privacy protections. Any app by Meta is a perfect example. I can 100% guarantee it is always listening on my wife's iPhone even though the app does not have access to her mic or camera. Her phone will be on the table, screen off, Facebook not running, and yet magically after she goes back to Facebook she ALWAYS has ads that deal with the conversation we were having. Go ahead and try if you don't believe me.

That said you can protect yourself in certain ways. Pi-hole for example can help filter a lot of the tracking and ads bullshit. My phone and son's phone auto-connect back to our house via VPN as soon as we drop from the WiFi so we're being filtered 24x7 365. iPhone can't do that btw as apps like Tasker will never have an iOS counterpart.

Another thing you can do is get a Pixel and go use GrapheneOS. https://grapheneos.org/

Graphene is Android based but it's been modified so that it can sandbox specific Google apps that you want to use. Google Maps for example. You can feed it dummy data thanks to GrapheneOS but still make use of Google Maps and not have to use some other subpar navigation software.

Graphene is something I'm considering using as it allows you to de-Google your life. The problem is having to replace other systems like Photos backup. Running and maintaining a NextCloud instance for that is something I'd like to do but just don't have the time or money to do right now. I'm not looking to de-Google my life because I think they're the devil or anything like that. I just want to be the one solely in control of my data because in the grand scheme the only person you can trust with your data is yourself.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Most of your post is your opinion, which I have no comment on.

Make no mistake though Apple does their own shady shit. For example Apple scans photos too but if you believe they don't use any of their data to make money well I have a bridge to sell you.

I don't have certainty on this like you do. But if they do, I'm sure that it's pooled anonymized data. Certainly though any income they would have to report, so it should be fairly easy to discover. Especially considering that all of this income would have to be told to shareholders.

I also love how their vaunted walled garden is so shitty when it comes to apps that somehow bypass privacy protections. Any app by Meta is a perfect example. I can 100% guarantee it is always listening on my wife's iPhone even though the app does not have access to her mic or camera. Her phone will be on the table, screen off, Facebook not running, and yet magically after she goes back to Facebook she ALWAYS has ads that deal with the conversation we were having. Go ahead and try if you don't believe me.

I basically have my iPhone with me 24/7, it's even a newer model which theoretically should have the most amount of spy-abilities, and I get zero ads for anything I've ever talked about from Facebook. And I'm on literally every Meta platform including Threads (and I suppose minus anything having to do with VR and Oculous).

Apps have data collection on an app by app basis. In the app store there is a portion dedicated to data the application uses that is tied to you or anonymized. Facebook as discussed below has indentifiers and trackers associated with it for third party advertising including:
Purchases, Financial info, Location, Contact Info, Contacts, User Content, Search History, Browsing History, Identifiers, Usage Data, Diagnostics, Other Data.
(I literally just listed everything the App store lists for Facebook).

So, Facebook knows your search history on other platforms, your usage data, etc. The sign in with Facebook "feature" is just another way for Facebook to collect info on you. They don't need to "listen to you" to find out about the things you want. You've likely done all the searches, clicked on the things, etc that is necessary for them to sell to you. And that is really what's behind Meta's magical ability to advertise to you, just like Amazon figuring out you're pregnant and suggesting items long before you ever make a specific Amazon search.

Listening all the time just isn't feasible. Everyone's phones would be white hot and burn through the battery in <3 hours if they did.

 

[GotNoRice]

It's comical that people think iOS devices are superior for privacy when the closed iOS ecosystem is designed to make sure you literally can't do anything that Apple doesn't want you to do, including anything that would prohibit their ability to collect your data. You aren't running anything on iOS unless you get it through the Apple Store. You aren't using a browser on iOS unless it's Safari or Safari with a skin. I really hope that there isn't anyone on here deluded enough to think that any of this is done for the consumer's benefit; certainly not for the sake of privacy. Meanwhile on Android you can side-load apps, use whatever app-store you want to, and use whatever browser you want to. Obviously most Android phones are not great when it comes to privacy, especially in their stock configuration, but at least it's not the phone equivalent of working from within a jail-cell. You have options to be able to lock things down if you care to do so.

 

[Aurelius]

It's comical that people think iOS devices are superior for privacy when the closed iOS ecosystem is designed to make sure you literally can't do anything that Apple doesn't want you to do, including anything that would prohibit their ability to collect your data. You aren't running anything on iOS unless you get it through the Apple Store. You aren't using a browser on iOS unless it's Safari or Safari with a skin. I really hope that there isn't anyone on here deluded enough to think that any of this is done for the consumer's benefit; certainly not for the sake of privacy. Meanwhile on Android you can side-load apps, use whatever app-store you want to, and use whatever browser you want to. Obviously most Android phones are not great when it comes to privacy, especially in their stock configuration, but at least it's not the phone equivalent of working from within a jail-cell. You have options to be able to lock things down if you care to do so.

The amount of lock-in and the amount of privacy aren't necessarily connected.

Yes, Apple does gather some data, but it still doesn't collect as much as Google and isn't peddling it around. And some of its policies are very clearly privacy-focused; it's telling that Meta panicked when Apple enabled the "request not to track" feature, as that meant Facebook and Instagram suddenly couldn't follow you across apps.

There's also the matter of theoretical versus practical privacy. In theory, Android is more private if you refuse to get apps where Google or others can track you, where you can use third-party stores and install apps to block data collection. But that's a lot of work to get to that point, and it's not fair or realistic to expect most people to go to those lengths... especially not when it might break apps they like using. Apple is most of the way there out of the box, so for the everyday user it's offering better real-world privacy.

 

[MrGuvernment]

It's comical that people think iOS devices are superior for privacy when the closed iOS ecosystem is designed to make sure you literally can't do anything that Apple doesn't want you to do, including anything that would prohibit their ability to collect your data. You aren't running anything on iOS unless you get it through the Apple Store. You aren't using a browser on iOS unless it's Safari or Safari with a skin. I really hope that there isn't anyone on here deluded enough to think that any of this is done for the consumer's benefit; certainly not for the sake of privacy. Meanwhile on Android you can side-load apps, use whatever app-store you want to, and use whatever browser you want to. Obviously most Android phones are not great when it comes to privacy, especially in their stock configuration, but at least it's not the phone equivalent of working from within a jail-cell. You have options to be able to lock things down if you care to do so.

I use Brave just fine on my iPhone 11....

But they are tracking things and not as anonymized as people want to think either sending back easily associated data
https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-when-off-app-store-1849757558
https://twitter.com/mysk_co/status/1588308341780262912

Mysk does good posts on Apple, being they are an iOS developer
Apple communicating back to Apple directly outside of a VPN being on (2022)
https://twitter.com/mysk_co/status/1579997801047822336?s=20

 

[Nebell]

I am pretty tired of my phone tracking me.
Today I googled for Gopro 11 because I wanted some information. Then went to Google news and of course it's showing me gopro news and reviews. I know it's tracking because I can click on the dots and choose "not shopping for this" option so it disappears.
I know phones and basically everything with cookies is tracking us and been so for decades.
I have no idea why I'm getting more and more annoyed by it. I suspect it's Facebook as every 3rd post there is an ad. I might get the new iPhone and see how that works out.