Is this UPS dead or is it just the batteries?

Bird222

[H]ard|Gawd
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Dec 1, 2000
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I have a Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD ups. On a couple of different occasions I've had the ups seem to lock up and the devices connected to it powered off. The display showed that the battery was full. Nothing looked odd. However, I couldn't seem to turn it off by holding the power button. The way I was able to turn it off, was to unplug it and then hold the power button. It didn't beep, the display just turned off. Then I plugged it back in and turned it on normally. When it came back on the battery icon showed it was completely drained. My questions are, is the battery just finally worn out or is this a problem with the unit itself? Also, what is the part number for new batteries for this? I can believe the batteries are worn out because I've had this unit for 6 years, but I wouldn't think I would get this behavior from worn out batteries.
 
Does it pass a self test?
Regardless 5-6 years is time to replace the batteries. They may start to swell and even leak as they age so I try to stick to a 5yr rule to be safe.
The part number should be on the battery. I'm not sure if cyberpower supplies a replacement part number on their website, so that may be worth checking out. I generally go with aftermarket oem batteries as the branded ones are the same just with their sticker slapped on and the mark up is huge. I got 6yrs out of the last set I bought on Amazon (6yo ones). I'll dig up my receipt if you need help finding a source. Altho my last batteries were bought from batteriesplus locally for convenience more than anything. They are over a year old and doing fine.
 
When the UPS is fully charged and you pull the power cable, does the connected gear stay on? If it doesn't the battery is no more.

I got four years out of my last UPS, and it powered a 4bay NAS, router, modem and switch. (850VA) It was a Cyberpower too, and I couldn't locate a replacement battery for it. (CP website said there was none, but a CP YT video had instruction on replacing the battery?)
 
Cyberpower has battery part numbers for this UPS on the spec page (depends on serial number), but if it's anything like the Cyberpower UPSes I use, you can probably open it up, or open the battery pack up and find a battery in a standard size, and then look for that.
 
When the UPS is fully charged and you pull the power cable, does the connected gear stay on? If it doesn't the battery is no more.

I got four years out of my last UPS, and it powered a 4bay NAS, router, modem and switch. (850VA) It was a Cyberpower too, and I couldn't locate a replacement battery for it. (CP website said there was none, but a CP YT video had instruction on replacing the battery?)
Yes it stays powered (at least for the 30 secs I had it unplugged). I know I can replace the batteries (and they are quite old) but my problem is I can't decide whether this 'locking up' behavior is just bad batteries or the UPS itself is going bad. There is no point in me buying new batteries for a faulty UPS. It doesn't seem to show any warnings in the display or beep like it's supposed to when the batteries are bad. Now the beeping part could be because I have it muted. I'm not sure if it's designed to still beep for bad batteries even if the alarm is muted.
 
Does it pass a self test?
Regardless 5-6 years is time to replace the batteries. They may start to swell and even leak as they age so I try to stick to a 5yr rule to be safe.

5 years is far too long for an UPS battery, they should be replaced every 2-4 years. Not all UPSes treat batteries the same, some have terrible charging systems that are extremely hard on the batteries and cause them to have a very short life. Old bad batteries can also take out an UPS depending on the mode of failure, so it's best to change them early and on a regular interval.

Yes it stays powered (at least for the 30 secs I had it unplugged). I know I can replace the batteries (and they are quite old) but my problem is I can't decide whether this 'locking up' behavior is just bad batteries or the UPS itself is going bad. There is no point in me buying new batteries for a faulty UPS. It doesn't seem to show any warnings in the display or beep like it's supposed to when the batteries are bad. Now the beeping part could be because I have it muted. I'm not sure if it's designed to still beep for bad batteries even if the alarm is muted.

I would not at all be surprised if the unit had an internal failure of some sort because it's a Cyberpower and they make TERRIBLE UPSes. In the hundreds of UPSes I've serviced, Cyberpower is at the top of the list for being the most unreliable in service and having scary failures due to incompetence in design and manufacturing. They're also on my shitlist for designing tons of highly disposable units where they use proprietary sized batteries that aren't available from anyone but them, and usually bury them so far inside the UPS you have to disassemble them to the last screw to get at them. The batteries are also usually grossly undersized for the units rating, like having a 450VA unit with a tiny 3.6 Ah battery. Since the design was based around the tiny battery, there's no way to use a normal 5 or 7 Ah battery without having it sit awkwardly outside the unit on extended wire leads.

Within the past few months, I've had one 500VA unit go on fire just being plugged in, and another 450VA with detonated mosfet carnage from not being heatsinked properly.

Your unit looks like one of the few that uses standard batteries, looks like a pair of 12v 7 Ah batteries. You can buy them without worrying about getting stuck with proprietary batteries because they'll work with hundreds of UPS models.
 
5 years is far too long for an UPS battery, they should be replaced every 2-4 years. Not all UPSes treat batteries the same, some have terrible charging systems that are extremely hard on the batteries and cause them to have a very short life. Old bad batteries can also take out an UPS depending on the mode of failure, so it's best to change them early and on a regular interval.



I would not at all be surprised if the unit had an internal failure of some sort because it's a Cyberpower and they make TERRIBLE UPSes. In the hundreds of UPSes I've serviced, Cyberpower is at the top of the list for being the most unreliable in service and having scary failures due to incompetence in design and manufacturing. They're also on my shitlist for designing tons of highly disposable units where they use proprietary sized batteries that aren't available from anyone but them, and usually bury them so far inside the UPS you have to disassemble them to the last screw to get at them. The batteries are also usually grossly undersized for the units rating, like having a 450VA unit with a tiny 3.6 Ah battery. Since the design was based around the tiny battery, there's no way to use a normal 5 or 7 Ah battery without having it sit awkwardly outside the unit on extended wire leads.

Within the past few months, I've had one 500VA unit go on fire just being plugged in, and another 450VA with detonated mosfet carnage from not being heatsinked properly.

Your unit looks like one of the few that uses standard batteries, looks like a pair of 12v 7 Ah batteries. You can buy them without worrying about getting stuck with proprietary batteries because they'll work with hundreds of UPS models.
Most of them now seem to be 'compatible with PFC' - what is wrong with Cyberpower?
I was considering the CP1000PFCLCD (good reviews on newegg). I bought parts toward a build (total of $2k, already) and thought, geez, I don't even have a surge protector - I have had battery back-ups in the past - so, I think I should get *something*. Active PFC - true sinewave units are being recommended because modern power supplies are active pfc - and the power supply companies are advising towards using a true sine wave unit (except, many of them are 'compatible with true sine wave' - afaik, the way they work is the power supply is 'tricked' or given a signal that is so close to a true sine wave, that it's accepted?).
The comparable APC back-ups is the BR1000MS - more expensive and reviews seem to be mixed.

I guess I should create a new thread if I want to ask 'which back-ups should I get?" I also need to know if the 600W one is enough - I believe so.
 
Yes it stays powered (at least for the 30 secs I had it unplugged). I know I can replace the batteries (and they are quite old) but my problem is I can't decide whether this 'locking up' behavior is just bad batteries or the UPS itself is going bad. There is no point in me buying new batteries for a faulty UPS. It doesn't seem to show any warnings in the display or beep like it's supposed to when the batteries are bad. Now the beeping part could be because I have it muted. I'm not sure if it's designed to still beep for bad batteries even if the alarm is muted.
Since the battery isnt dead, the problem cannot be caused by the battery.
 
Most of them now seem to be 'compatible with PFC' - what is wrong with Cyberpower?

Cyberpower is to UPSes as Logisys is to PSUs. Trash tier company.

and the power supply companies are advising towards using a true sine wave unit (except, many of them are 'compatible with true sine wave' - afaik, the way they work is the power supply is 'tricked' or given a signal that is so close to a true sine wave, that it's accepted?).

Pure sine wave units are better but more expensive. Modified sine wave units can be all over the place. In a worst case scenario, a modified sine wave will just swap power polarity in an ugly square wave, which is not at all safe for complex electronics. Most modified sine wave units try to approximate a sine wave using stepped square waves.

modified-sine-wave-vs-pure-sine-wave.jpg


AC electronics really don't like square or stepped square waves, which can cause all sorts of weird issues. Simpler devices like motors don't like it either, they won't run correctly and often start emitting harmonic sounds.
 
Cyberpower is to UPSes as Logisys is to PSUs. Trash tier company.



Pure sine wave units are better but more expensive. Modified sine wave units can be all over the place. In a worst case scenario, a modified sine wave will just swap power polarity in an ugly square wave, which is not at all safe for complex electronics. Most modified sine wave units try to approximate a sine wave using stepped square waves.

View attachment 467105

AC electronics really don't like square or stepped square waves, which can cause all sorts of weird issues. Simpler devices like motors don't like it either, they won't run correctly and often start emitting harmonic sounds.
Several of the so-called 'pure' sine wave Back-UPS aren't true pure sine wave units - what about those? They emulate pure sine wave so that is good enough?
Also, after being confused - I researched and Corsair made it clear on their forum that simulated /step sine wave units are fine for their power supplies. What about that?
 
5 years is far too long for an UPS battery, they should be replaced every 2-4 years. Not all UPSes treat batteries the same, some have terrible charging systems that are extremely hard on the batteries and cause them to have a very short life. Old bad batteries can also take out an UPS depending on the mode of failure, so it's best to change them early and on a regular interval.



I would not at all be surprised if the unit had an internal failure of some sort because it's a Cyberpower and they make TERRIBLE UPSes. In the hundreds of UPSes I've serviced, Cyberpower is at the top of the list for being the most unreliable in service and having scary failures due to incompetence in design and manufacturing. They're also on my shitlist for designing tons of highly disposable units where they use proprietary sized batteries that aren't available from anyone but them, and usually bury them so far inside the UPS you have to disassemble them to the last screw to get at them. The batteries are also usually grossly undersized for the units rating, like having a 450VA unit with a tiny 3.6 Ah battery. Since the design was based around the tiny battery, there's no way to use a normal 5 or 7 Ah battery without having it sit awkwardly outside the unit on extended wire leads.

Within the past few months, I've had one 500VA unit go on fire just being plugged in, and another 450VA with detonated mosfet carnage from not being heatsinked properly.

Your unit looks like one of the few that uses standard batteries, looks like a pair of 12v 7 Ah batteries. You can buy them without worrying about getting stuck with proprietary batteries because they'll work with hundreds of UPS models.
From your experience, do you see better built UPSs from the others? Which ones? My experience is negative also: the CP 450 model failed due to the battery getting old (not unexpected) but it did not give any warnings, and what is worst, it failed by disabling the backed up outlets while the unit is still powered by AC.
 
From your experience, do you see better built UPSs from the others? Which ones? My experience is negative also: the CP 450 model failed due to the battery getting old (not unexpected) but it did not give any warnings, and what is worst, it failed by disabling the backed up outlets while the unit is still powered by AC.

Most UPSes aren't going to behave with a bad battery, even good ones. Many also won't even turn on with a bad battery. Most of my APC units won't power on with bad batteries.

As for "Good" brands, I go with APC, Tripp Lite or WBox if need something rotgut cheap that still works. Just stay away from the funny form factor units like these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FWAZEIU/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073Q48Z95

Because they'll either have buried batteries inside the unit that are exceedingly difficult to change, and/or proprietary battery sizes that are impossible or hideously expensive to get when they inevitably fail.
 
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Most UPSes aren't going to behave with a bad battery, even good ones. Many also won't even turn on with a bad battery. Most of my APC units won't power on with bad batteries.

As for "Good" brands, I go with APC, Tripp Lite or WBox if need something rotgut cheap that still works. Just stay away from the funny form factor units like these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FWAZEIU/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073Q48Z95

Because they'll either have buried batteries inside the unit that are exceedingly difficult to change, and/or proprietary battery sizes that are impossible or hideously expensive to get when they inevitably fail.
How is the smart key UPS brand? Seems like they get good reviews...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B098QFH93L/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3I43SR3E5GPMC&th=1
 
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You definately got your money's worth from those batteries. I bought the CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS. I have had no issues with it since owning it. I got it because B&H sells the batteries and figured I could get quick replacements for less $. I have it connected to my network switch , modem and server. I even got it configured to be monitored by a NUT server. No complaints.


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1625889-REG/cyberpower_cp1350pfclcd_1350va_810w_pure.html
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Most UPSes aren't going to behave with a bad battery, even good ones. Many also won't even turn on with a bad battery. Most of my APC units won't power on with bad batteries.

As for "Good" brands, I go with APC, Tripp Lite or WBox if need something rotgut cheap that still works. Just stay away from the funny form factor units like these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FWAZEIU/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073Q48Z95

Because they'll either have buried batteries inside the unit that are exceedingly difficult to change, and/or proprietary battery sizes that are impossible or hideously expensive to get when they inevitably fail.
Thank you for the comment. I am an EE myself, have relevant experience designing ups like systems, but for the different purposes. If I designed a system that does not fail safe (bad backup battery) I would be ashamed of myself. To add to the original story, I own a condo in Ft.Myers area, where I installed the same CP 450 model about 3 years ago backing up the WiFi router used by the cameras and a smart thermostat. When I heard of Ien coming, tried to connect, and all was off line - 2 days before the storm. Today I asked the downstairs neighbor to go and check. It failed the same way - power coming in, nothing out. She unplugged the cords from the backed up outlets, and replugged them into the surge protected ones. All came back to life in a minute :)
 
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