Silly Bitcoin Cooling System

jfb9301 said:
honestly, the bickering is getting out of hand.

I'm sure I've seen pictures of cooling systems equally insane to deal with the heat of folding, that was what this thread started with.

If you can't get it back on track....

1) let the thread die
2) lock the thread
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Don't try to backseat moderate?

On that note, bitcoin at this time seems more profitable financially to me than folding, though to be honest my gripe with folding mostly involves the developers. So if we weren't talking finance and just "the greater good" I would be more likely to support projects other than folding.

tl;dr I don't support the devs of f@h, so at the moment I will not be folding. Not like I could make much of a contribution to any project with my current computer.
 
Perhaps I'm just stupid, but how is this considered distributed computing? There is no pooling of computing resources to solve complex problems. The only benefit of running the program is to the user, and nobody else as far as I can tell.

I don't care what anybody does with their own hardware, but I can't see how this even belongs in the DC subforum.
 
SatTech said:
Perhaps I'm just stupid, but how is this considered distributed computing? There is no pooling of computing resources to solve complex problems. The only benefit of running the program is to the user, and nobody else as far as I can tell.

I don't care what anybody does with their own hardware, but I can't see how this even belongs in the DC subforum.
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Cool story.
 
infect0 said:
Cool story.
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and true one, Bitcoin in and of itself is not distributed computing, namely because you can do the work on your own....when you pool, i guess it technically becomes DC, however again its not really what this area is typically for.......


needless to say, this thread has derailed tons..
 
W.Feather said:
and true one, Bitcoin in and of itself is not distributed computing, namely because you can do the work on your own....when you pool, i guess it technically becomes DC, however again its not really what this area is typically for.......


needless to say, this thread has derailed tons..
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its more then that the miner clients are what make the network go-around
when you send some on bitcoin that transaction is added to the next block
when the block hash is guessed buy the miners the clients confirm the coins in the block then ok it out the nodes

sounds like DC to me
 
infect0 said:
Cool story.
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Way to act like a doucebag. If I'd said you were an idiot for running this supposed 'DC' client, then sure, be defensive and act like a child. However, I did not. I stick to my opinion that this does not belong in this subforum because the purpose is strictly for personal gain.
 
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SatTech said:
Way to act like a doucebag. If I'd said you were an idiot for running this supposed 'DC' client, then sure, be defensive and act like a child. However, I did not. I stick to my opinion that this does not belong in this subforum because the purpose is strictly for personal gain.
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BitCoin mining is like key-rich RC5-64 with money. Don't see how that's not DC.

Really you should encourage people to mine BC if they're interested in the money. When the keyspace becomes more exhausted and it's not worth mining, you might be able to talk them into F@H ;)
 
SatTech said:
Way to act like a doucebag. If I'd said you were an idiot for running this supposed 'DC' client, then sure, be defensive and act like a child. However, I did not. I stick to my opinion that this does not belong in this subforum because the purpose is strictly for personal gain.
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Then dont post in it?

Not my problem people cannot keep on topic. The reason I posted it in this subforum is because the cooling system was something that was most applicable to the guys that DC. To each his own though. Literally it was a video of a multimachine cooling system that is closest to something a DC would do. Somehow that video turned into people arguing. I think the video is most applicable to DC but to each his own.

FWIW, personal gain has no qualification for the definition of DC. If you did not enjoy the video then dont respond.
 
W.Feather said:
and true one, Bitcoin in and of itself is not distributed computing, namely because you can do the work on your own....when you pool, i guess it technically becomes DC, however again its not really what this area is typically for.......


needless to say, this thread has derailed tons..
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an honest question, COULD someone set up a monster folding farm and fold on their own without joining the [H]orde (<---greatest DC nick ever btw) or any other "farm"...? if so would that be distributed computing on his end...? or would he be considered something else...? he would be doing the exact same thing as any folder (or bitcoin miner), no...? you have to realize that right now the majority of miners mine in a pool, how is Deepbit (or any of the various pools) any different than the [H]orde...?

it's already been pointed out that monetary compensation and distributed computing are not mutually exclusive according to the very definition of distributed computing, so aside from compensation what would the difference(s) be that would exclude him from being a folder...?
 
infect0 said:
Then dont post in it?

Not my problem people cannot keep on topic. The reason I posted it in this subforum is because the cooling system was something that was most applicable to the guys that DC. To each his own though. Literally it was a video of a multimachine cooling system that is closest to something a DC would do. Somehow that video turned into people arguing. I think the video is most applicable to DC but to each his own.

FWIW, personal gain has no qualification for the definition of DC. If you did not enjoy the video then dont respond.
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Yeah, it got derailed, but keep your GenMay comments in GenMay. And if you don't like where this thread went, lock it.
 
wol-va-rine said:
an honest question, COULD someone set up a monster folding farm and fold on their own without joining the [H]orde (<---greatest DC nick ever btw) or any other "farm"...? if so would that be distributed computing on his end...? or would he be considered something else...? he would be doing the exact same thing as any folder (or bitcoin miner), no...? you have to realize that right now the majority of miners mine in a pool, how is Deepbit (or any of the various pools) any different than the [H]orde...?

it's already been pointed out that monetary compensation and distributed computing are not mutually exclusive according to the very definition of distributed computing, so aside from compensation what would the difference(s) be that would exclude him from being a folder...?
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Yes to your question on making a farm on your own. DC'ing does not have to be public nor does it require a team in general. You can have your own in-house DC project or you can participate in many projects out there (not just F@H).
 
wol-va-rine said:
an honest question, COULD someone set up a monster folding farm and fold on their own without joining the [H]orde (<---greatest DC nick ever btw) or any other "farm"...? if so would that be distributed computing on his end...? or would he be considered something else...? he would be doing the exact same thing as any folder (or bitcoin miner), no...? you have to realize that right now the majority of miners mine in a pool, how is Deepbit (or any of the various pools) any different than the [H]orde...?

it's already been pointed out that monetary compensation and distributed computing are not mutually exclusive according to the very definition of distributed computing, so aside from compensation what would the difference(s) be that would exclude him from being a folder...?
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You could look at a pool of bitcoiners as the same thing as a team in folding or any other DC project. You don't have to belong to one run the program.

I don't consider bitcoin a DC program. Almost all DC programs are trying to find an answer, that no one knows, to a problem. How is looking for a hash that's been preassigned, whether its arbitrarily or formulated, solving a problem? The coders of bitcoin already know how many correct hashes are in each of the assigned units. Other wise, they couldn't set a limit to the number of bitcoins out there and change the difficulty so that newer, faster equipment no longer holds a huge edge. That's like saying an Easter egg hunt is solving a problem. Someone already knows where everything is.

Bitcoins are basically a commodity market. They are only holding this large "value" due to the fact no one has sold off a ton. As soon as someone decides to cash out 20,000 or whatever amount and flood the market, the value will plummet. I'll bet no one would be willing to pay $8-9 a piece for 20,000+ of the things. When you buy in bulk you get better pricing. Things are only worth what someone is willing to pay. No one with $200,000 to spend is gonna pay that much for those things.
 
[H]ugh_Freak;1037319925 said:
You could look at a pool of bitcoiners as the same thing as a team in folding or any other DC project. You don't have to belong to one run the program.

I don't consider bitcoin a DC program. Almost all DC programs are trying to find an answer, that no one knows, to a problem. How is looking for a hash that's been preassigned, whether its arbitrarily or formulated, solving a problem? The coders of bitcoin already know how many correct hashes are in each of the assigned units. Other wise, they couldn't set a limit to the number of bitcoins out there and change the difficulty so that newer, faster equipment no longer holds a huge edge. That's like saying an Easter egg hunt is solving a problem. Someone already knows where everything is.

Bitcoins are basically a commodity market. They are only holding this large "value" due to the fact no one has sold off a ton. As soon as someone decides to cash out 20,000 or whatever amount and flood the market, the value will plummet. I'll bet no one would be willing to pay $8-9 a piece for 20,000+ of the things. When you buy in bulk you get better pricing. Things are only worth what someone is willing to pay. No one with $200,000 to spend is gonna pay that much for those things.
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well, 2+2 is solving a mathematical problem, no...? the answer does not have to be unknown for problem solving to take place, also, buying bitcoins in bulk would not get you better pricing unless you tried to negotiate peer to peer, the exchanges don't offer "bulk" pricing just like you can't go to your bank and get bulk pricing...

and we've already established that someone bought $20,000 worth in one pop, what you and I think is logical or even sane is irrelevant here, there may be someone out there who is convinced that the value of bitcoins is about to take off to $100 per BTC and they may just do exactly what you said no one would, there is precedent here so it's not that far removed from the realm of possibility...

and what you think about buying in large quantities is basically in line with my thinking as well, but imo, to be truthful your statement should read "No one in their right mind with $200,000 to spend is gonna pay that much for those things.", teh crazy happens all the time in all facets of life, nothing shocks me anymore...
 
wol-va-rine said:
well, 2+2 is solving a mathematical problem, no...? the answer does not have to be unknown for problem solving to take place, also, buying bitcoins in bulk would not get you better pricing unless you tried to negotiate peer to peer, the exchanges don't offer "bulk" pricing just like you can't go to your bank and get bulk pricing...

and we've already established that someone bought $20,000 worth in one pop, what you and I think is logical or even sane is irrelevant here, there may be someone out there who is convinced that the value of bitcoins is about to take off to $100 per BTC and they may just do exactly what you said no one would, there is precedent here so it's not that far removed from the realm of possibility...

and what you think about buying in large quantities is basically in line with my thinking as well, but imo, to be truthful your statement should read "No one in their right mind with $200,000 to spend is gonna pay that much for those things.", teh crazy happens all the time in all facets of life, nothing shocks me anymore...
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True solving each hash is itself a problem but that doesn't matter because each hash doesn't lead anywhere. Take my Easter egg hunt as an example. Each hash that does not correspond to a BTC would be like looking under a rock that doesn't have an egg under it. It eliminates a possibility, not answers a problem.
Yes, you're right it should read "in their right mind," but $20,000 is far removed from $200,000. Not many stupid shits have $200K sitting around. Anyone exchanging $200,000 doesn't go into their local bank cause they will get raped by fees. They go to specialists in large sums.
I think if it was some truly great untraceable currency, the Chinese, drug cartels, international arms dealers, etc., would be setting up huge pools to accumulate as much as possible. How many exchanges are gonna wire $200K into someones paypal account? Almost no place takes BTC, and as soon as its converted into real, usable funds it is traceable. Don't think the government wouldn't take notice of $200k all of a sudden popping into someones bank account. Most banks are bound by law to report anything over $10K, although I think it may be 5 or 8k now in the US. It's similar in other countries as well. Exchanges also keep records, cause really, what kinda bookkeeper are you if you have no idea where and how much money you have flowing around.
 
[H]ugh_Freak;1037320206 said:
True solving each hash is itself a problem but that doesn't matter because each hash doesn't lead anywhere. Take my Easter egg hunt as an example. Each hash that does not correspond to a BTC would be like looking under a rock that doesn't have an egg under it. It eliminates a possibility, not answers a problem.
Yes, you're right it should read "in their right mind," but $20,000 is far removed from $200,000. Not many stupid shits have $200K sitting around. Anyone exchanging $200,000 doesn't go into their local bank cause they will get raped by fees. They go to specialists in large sums.
I think if it was some truly great untraceable currency, the Chinese, drug cartels, international arms dealers, etc., would be setting up huge pools to accumulate as much as possible. How many exchanges are gonna wire $200K into someones paypal account? Almost no place takes BTC, and as soon as its converted into real, usable funds it is traceable. Don't think the government wouldn't take notice of $200k all of a sudden popping into someones bank account. Most banks are bound by law to report anything over $10K, although I think it may be 5 or 8k now in the US. It's similar in other countries as well. Exchanges also keep records, cause really, what kinda bookkeeper are you if you have no idea where and how much money you have flowing around.
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forgive me, this is where my ignorance about folding kicks in, but are there no wasted computations in folding...?

and I don't disagree about the traceability, but I also don't give it much thought, my guess is that 99% of miners also don't care if it's traceable, that's probably the farthest thing from their minds, those 99% (me included) are just trying to find a way to make it profitable as long as they can, it seems like people always want to steer this conversation towards the illegal uses and it's viability in that regard, but not once have I seen an actual miner bring this up (it's always someone opposed to or suspicious of mining), not once, and if you look through all my posts about mining I have yet to mention traceability as a factor in my decision to do this, so why do the opposing views tend to veer off in that regard...?
 
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Yes....most projects have a ton of results that don't lead anywhere. For example, if you are looking for primes, there are hundreds of results that do NOT result in what primes you are looking for. Has SETI found any signs of aliens? But a different view point is that the work units that don't have good results also eliminate those possibilities which also gets you closer to your goal. It is all relative.
 
SatTech said:
Yeah, it got derailed, but keep your GenMay comments in GenMay. And if you don't like where this thread went, lock it.
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I could not care less, you are the one who does obviously. Like I said, if you dont like it, dont post in it. Also these types of cooling setups are most applicable to those that DC. That is all.
 
infect0 said:
I could not care less, you are the one who does obviously. Like I said, if you dont like it, dont post in it. Also these types of cooling setups are most applicable to those that DC. That is all.
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You obviously do care, since the derail obviously hurt your feelings enough for you to start crying about it. So either lock the thread or stop acting like a hurt child and let it go where it wants to go.

And just think, if you lock it, you can get the last word in...That'll be +1 internet points for you!
 
Zink said:
The DC forum makes everyone cry:(
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:D

lol...

I really don't understand why dude keeps posting about wanting to shut the thread down, posters not responding to his complaints directly are having a pretty civil and informative discussion or am I wrong here...? isn't this what threads are for...?

:confused:
 
Yep, the discussion was pretty civil. Funny thing about threads, they often end up in some pretty strange places...
 
SatTech said:
You obviously do care, since the derail obviously hurt your feelings enough for you to start crying about it. So either lock the thread or stop acting like a hurt child and let it go where it wants to go.

And just think, if you lock it, you can get the last word in...That'll be +1 internet points for you!
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Sorry I hurt your feelings man. I guess I will repeat it one more time for you. I posted the video in the DC subforum because the cooling setup is most applicable to DC. Disagree all you want but unless you have something productive to add dont post anymore, k thx. ;)
 
infect0 said:
Sorry I hurt your feelings man. I guess I will repeat it one more time for you. I posted the video in the DC subforum because the cooling setup is most applicable to DC. Disagree all you want but unless you have something productive to add dont post anymore, k thx. ;)
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No hurt feelings at all. Just enjoying your little tantrum about the thread de-rail. By the way, I wasn't the one that derailed it, so take your angst somewhere else.
 
SatTech said:
No hurt feelings at all. Just enjoying your little tantrum about the thread de-rail. By the way, I wasn't the one that derailed it, so take your angst somewhere else.
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Sorry again for hurting your feelings. Anyway cheers mate, you can have the last word.

+ignored
 
Since the market for generation is controlled I do have to wonder when it becomes saturated and the guys that are running 50GPUs are going to drop out. Last week the difficulty went up 78%.

As I said before, the winners are those that took 0 risk and generated while the difficulty was low.

I just hope they turn some of that power into a productive project. Doubtful though. Maybe we can pick up some cheap gear.
 
infect0 said:
Since the market for generation is controlled I do have to wonder when it becomes saturated and the guys that are running 50GPUs are going to drop out. Last week the difficulty went up 78%.
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But by the same token, bitcoin value has gone up by almost a factor of 10 in the last month and a half. Gonna be interesting to follow the market just to see where this thing goes.
 
wol-va-rine said:
an honest question, COULD someone set up a monster folding farm and fold on their own without joining the [H]orde (<---greatest DC nick ever btw) or any other "farm"...? if so would that be distributed computing on his end...? or would he be considered something else...? he would be doing the exact same thing as any folder (or bitcoin miner), no...? you have to realize that right now the majority of miners mine in a pool, how is Deepbit (or any of the various pools) any different than the [H]orde...?

it's already been pointed out that monetary compensation and distributed computing are not mutually exclusive according to the very definition of distributed computing, so aside from compensation what would the difference(s) be that would exclude him from being a folder...?
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yes you can setup a folding farm and fold on your own, no team is needed.....hell prior to joining [H] i did other DC projects with no team. Considered exactly the same as every other DC users, since guess what? He/she is participating in a DC project, something I do not consider BitCoin. I have no idea how Deepbit works, i would assume similar to any of the folding teams, however Its more that I do not consider this a true distributed computing project since nothing meaningful is being produced/obtained, however the other projects out there are getting results (atleast they have results, weather anything meaningful has come to light is up to those who look at the results)
 
W.Feather said:
yes you can setup a folding farm and fold on your own, no team is needed.....hell prior to joining [H] i did other DC projects with no team. Considered exactly the same as every other DC users, since guess what? He/she is participating in a DC project, something I do not consider BitCoin. I have no idea how Deepbit works, i would assume similar to any of the folding teams, however Its more that I do not consider this a true distributed computing project since nothing meaningful is being produced/obtained, however the other projects out there are getting results (atleast they have results, weather anything meaningful has come to light is up to those who look at the results)
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my guess is that your interpretations of DC and meaningful are different than at the very least "some" others, because the very definitions of those words tend to differ from your interpretation of them, there is nothing except for opinion that states that distributed computing and profiteering are mutually exclusive endeavors and the money made by mining is very meaningful to some, terms like "meaningful" and "the greater good" are very relative terms, it's like the folding guy who said that he can't sleep in his room because of his folding equipment, so yes, his "welfare" be damned, but actually he's not talking about his "welfare", he's talking about his "comfort", there's a big difference...

I'd argue that bitcoins are meaningful in the folding community as well because at least one miner (who also folds) has already stated that after selling his bitcoin to pay for his investment in hardaware he will be buying more folding gear with the profits, it's not meaningful now that a folder has more money to increase his folding contribution...?

also, to answer one of the questions above, I don't think it's the 50gpu farm guys that will drop out first, I think it's the guys like me that run only on their existing one or two rigs because they don't have the money to invest in more, the pools will get hit hardest at first as the people pulling anything less than 1GH/s will drop en masse, greatly lowering the processing power of the pools...
 
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wol-va-rine said:
my guess is that your interpretations of DC and meaningful are different than at the very least "some" others, because the very definitions of those words tend to differ from your interpretation of them, there is nothing except for opinion that states that distributed computing and profiteering are mutually exclusive endeavors and the money made by mining is very meaningful to some, terms like "meaningful" and "the greater good" are very relative terms
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Not really. Bitcoin works by making people do something "really really hard" with their PC's and gives them a cookie in return. thats it. how is that meaningful? What if I said, "hey! everyone who can pat their head and rub their stomach for 4 straight hours gets a token.. and then they can take that token and spend it in imaginary stores that don't exist yet... but they will exist! and you can sell your tokens!" Would that be meaningful?

now take f@h: Stanford makes people do something "really really hard" with their PC's and gives them a cookie in return.. BUT then they take the result and write scientific papers that advance the knowledge of the human race.

the definition of "the greater good'" in this case isn't even a question. Bitcoin is for the good of a single person.
 
Activate: AMD said:
Not really. Bitcoin works by making people do something "really really hard" with their PC's and gives them a cookie in return. thats it. how is that meaningful? What if I said, "hey! everyone who can pat their head and rub their stomach for 4 straight hours gets a token.. and then they can take that token and spend it in imaginary stores that don't exist yet... but they will exist! and you can sell your tokens!" Would that be meaningful?

now take f@h: Stanford makes people do something "really really hard" with their PC's and gives them a cookie in return.. BUT then they take the result and write scientific papers that advance the knowledge of the human race.

the definition of "the greater good'" in this case isn't even a question. Bitcoin is for the good of a single person.
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So a foray into crypto currencies couldn't produce any economic research papers that could advance the knowledge of the human race?
 
Activate: AMD said:
Not really. Bitcoin works by making people do something "really really hard" with their PC's and gives them a cookie in return. thats it. how is that meaningful? What if I said, "hey! everyone who can pat their head and rub their stomach for 4 straight hours gets a token.. and then they can take that token and spend it in imaginary stores that don't exist yet... but they will exist! and you can sell your tokens!" Would that be meaningful?

now take f@h: Stanford makes people do something "really really hard" with their PC's and gives them a cookie in return.. BUT then they take the result and write scientific papers that advance the knowledge of the human race.

the definition of "the greater good'" in this case isn't even a question. Bitcoin is for the good of a single person.
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your forgetting that mining also does the work of processing transfers for bitcoins between nodes (read wallets) on the network
its not just mindless hashing its the miners that verify what coins are real and what transactions are valid
 
Parja said:
for some reason, people somewhere are willing to pay $8+ per bitcoin.
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That's the major question for me. Who is buying bitcoins? Why? What are they doing with them? If the demand ever goes away, the market for BTC collapses.

The other question, of course, is what is really being done with the processing power. Who is behind this thing?
 
jebo_4jc said:
That's the major question for me. Who is buying bitcoins? Why? What are they doing with them? If the demand ever goes away, the market for BTC collapses.

The other question, of course, is what is really being done with the processing power. Who is behind this thing?
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more like 9 bucks atm and its trending to 10
 
Elios said:
your forgetting that mining also does the work of processing transfers for bitcoins between nodes (read wallets) on the network
its not just mindless hashing its the miners that verify what coins are real and what transactions are valid
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ok, so everyone has to pat their head and rub their belly and detect counterfeit tokens.. doesnt change anything
LightningCrash said:
So a foray into crypto currencies couldn't produce any economic research papers that could advance the knowledge of the human race?
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but thats not the point of it. I'll take the probability that Stanford's work is advancing protein knowledge over the probability that Bitcoin's work is advancing economics knowledge any day of the week.
Elios said:
more like 9 bucks atm and its trending to 10
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thanks for answering the question :rolleyes:

If the point of a BTC is to produce it so you can sell it for USD then it has NO purpose unless it creates value.
 
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