State of the SSD

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extide

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So, I have kind of compiled a list of the SSD offerings out there, based on their controllers. Here is what I have so far:

Intel Based:
Intel X25-E (SLC)
Intel X18-M/X25-M (MLC)
Kingston E Series (Intel X25-E Based) (SLC)
Kingston M Series (Intel X25-M Based) (MLC)


Samsung Based:
Corsair P256 (MLC) (Latest Gen)
Corsair S128 (MLC)
Corsair M64 (MLC) (Not 100% sure on this one)
OCZ OCZSSD2-1S32G/OCZ OCZSSD2-1S64G (?SLC?) (Slightly Older) (Is this really a samsung?)


Indilinx Barefoot Based:
OCZ Vertex (MLC)
OCZ Vertex EX (SLC)
Super Talent UltraDrive ME (MLC)
Super Talent UltraDrive LE (SLC)
G.Skill Falcon (MLC)
Patriot (Fusion) Torqx (MLC)


?? Based ??:
Super Talent MasterDrive PX (SLC)


JMicron Based:
Don't waste your time with these! They stutter and suck. Many many drives use the JMicron sontrollers so I wont bother listing them.


Please go ahead and post up other drives and whatnot, I will update this post and we can keep an on-going list.


emthup.gif
 
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That is a Samsung based one apparently. Should be a good drive. Can anyone else confirm it's a Samsung one and I will add it to the list.
 
Well first off you are not differentiating between the SLC and MLC drives..

That OCZ drive is a SLC drive and all SLC drives should be fast and as far as I know none of them have the stuttering problem.
 
Lazn_Work said:
Well first off you are not differentiating between the SLC and MLC drives..

That OCZ drive is a SLC drive and all SLC drives should be fast and as far as I know none of them have the stuttering problem.
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That is a pretty good point, but I do think the controller is more important. I will add the data though. (I don't know of any SLC JMicron SSD's so that kind of makes SLC drives semi immune from being just terrible)
 
dandragonrage said:
Incorrect. Controller is just as important as flash.
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Oh I will agree with you, but show me a SATA SLC drive that has a bad controller.. They may exist, but to my knowledge by the time a MFG decides to spend the $$ making a SLC drive they don't cheap out on the controller.
 
Here's the only SLC drive that I have seen perform poorly:
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1630/crucial_32gb_2_5_solid_state_disk_drive/index9.html

Other than that, SLC is a "safe" purchase.

I don't think we can talk about hard drive speeds in relation to just max sequential speeds and access times anymore. It's now about speeds on random reads/writes as well as sequential reads/writes on both small (4k) and large (1MB) files. As well as how many I/O's at those different sizes. It's a lot more complex now than just "that drive is faster than that one".
 
Griff805 said:
Here's the only SLC drive that I have seen perform poorly:
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1630/crucial_32gb_2_5_solid_state_disk_drive/index9.html

Other than that, SLC is a "safe" purchase.

I don't think we can talk about hard drive speeds in relation to just max sequential speeds and access times anymore. It's now about speeds on random reads/writes as well as sequential reads/writes on both small (4k) and large (1MB) files. As well as how many I/O's at those different sizes. It's a lot more complex now than just "that drive is faster than that one".
Click to expand...

Tweaktown is the only place I can find that says that is a SLC drive..
http://articles.directorym.com/Crucial_CT32GBFAB0-a1071659.html
Curiously, although MLC NAND flash is typically much cheaper than SLC NAND flash, costing around £3 per gigabyte, the CT32GBFAB0 is similarly priced to an SLC drive"

I am fairly sure that is actually a MLC drive.
 
Crucial does offer a 5 year warranty on it. They don't say anywhere on their product specs about SLC or MLC. Who knows... Crucial probably doesn't even know judging by how it performs.
 
Lazn_Work said:
Oh I will agree with you, but show me a SATA SLC drive that has a bad controller.. They may exist, but to my knowledge by the time a MFG decides to spend the $$ making a SLC drive they don't cheap out on the controller.
Click to expand...

I can tell you that the Intel MLC drives beat the crap out of the Samsung SLC drives in overall performance. But I'd take the Samsungs WAY, WAY, WAY before like JMicron crap.
 
The difference in the controller for SLC is just the raw sequential R/W. The "old" drives based on the original samsung controller are all in the 100/80 R/W area, there is a mid-level controller used in the Super Talent PX which is roughly 170/130, there is barefoot controller (ocz vertex, super talent ultradrive) which should have the same speeds as the MLC (for raw seq at least, should actually be faster for random and IOps), there is the Intel X25-E controller, and the new samsung controller.... Did I miss any?
 
Super Talent UltraDrive LE is SLC barefoot. If anyone has any ideas on how to tell with the Masterdrive PX (that are non-destructive/warranty voiding) I can check on mine.
 
this list confuses me, the reviews I read about the vertex show it to be a damn good drive, second only to the intel based offerings. theres quite a few more drives out there with poorer performance compared to the vertex.
 
why are we putting samsung based drives over the indilinx ?
read / write speeds are nearly DOUBLE the samsung drives and cheaper
 
I don't have any experience with any of them but I am trying to do this to help people who are looking into purchasing them (including me). I figured it would be nice to have a list of all of the ones out there and what controllers they use/etc. I am not trying to quote performance numbers really, just identify the drives and controllers and what models are the good ones and what to avoid.

The categories are sorted really based on price, and by acceptable performance I am mostly speaking of the random 4KB write speed, of which the Inilinx drives seem to get 2-3MB/sec, while the latest gen Samsungs (Corsair P256) get about 6MB/sec and the Intel's get 20-30MB/sec. Why random 4KB writes? This seems to have a large impact on performance, and also clearly distinguishes the different players in the market. The JMicron controllers do not deliver acceptable performance in this category. The drives in each category are not sorted in any particular order.
 
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extide said:
I don't have any experience with any of them but I am trying to do this to help people who are looking into purchasing them (including me). I figured it would be nice to have a list of all of the ones out there and what controllers they use/etc. I am not trying to quote performance numbers really, just identify the drives and controllers and what models are the good ones and what to avoid.

The categories are sorted really based on price, and by acceptable performance I am mostly speaking of the random 4KB write speed, of which the Inilinx drives seem to get 2-3MB/sec, while the latest gen Samsungs (Corsair P256) get about 6MB/sec and the Intel's get 20-30MB/sec. Why random 4KB writes? This seems to have a large impact on performance, and also clearly distinguishes the different players in the market. The JMicron controllers do not deliver acceptable performance in this category. The drives in each category are not sorted in any particular order.
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then you should post what it is you are separating them by =)
4k random writes might not be as important as 4k random reads to someone :D(IE ME!)
 
Monkey God said:
They were sorted in a particular order before you ninja-edited it :)
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I didnt re-order the drives, but I did move the Super Talent LE drive up under the Indilinx section because it was in the unknown section before...


Digital Viper-X- said:
then you should post what it is you are separating them by =)
4k random writes might not be as important as 4k random reads to someone :D(IE ME!)
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All the drives do pretty well in random reads, the Indilinx ones might beat out some of the Samsung ones in this area, but the differences arent nearly as significant. The list would get far too complicated if I tried to list out all the benchmark performance for each drive. In any case, all the MLC Inidilinx Barefoot drives are basically identical, and then the Intel and the matching Kingston are basically identical, so the only real interesting bit of data is what controller is being used. Go look up some benchmarks on a drive if you want to see more numbers. Not every benchmark and whatnot lists the actual controller so it's not as easy to find out that stuff. Sheesh ;) ...
 
extide said:
I didnt re-order the drives, but I did move the Super Talent LE drive up under the Indilinx section because it was in the unknown section before..

All the drives do pretty well in random reads, the Indilinx ones might beat out some of the Samsung ones in this area, but the differences arent nearly as significant. The list would get far too complicated if I tried to list out all the benchmark performance for each drive. In any case, all the MLC Inidilinx Barefoot drives are basically identical, and then the Intel and the matching Kingston are basically identical, so the only real interesting bit of data is what controller is being used. Go look up some benchmarks on a drive if you want to see more numbers. Not every benchmark and whatnot lists the actual controller so it's not as easy to find out that stuff. Sheesh ;) ...
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you should still indicate what you are using to sort them :p

are you sure on the 4k writes? this one seems to say otherwise
PCPerspective said:
The Intel X25-M is still the top drive for read performance - it not only peaks higher but it ramps up faster as our transfer size increases. For writes though, the addition of the 64MB of cache with the Indilinx Barefoot controller clearly gives the OCX Vertex drive the best overall performance.
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Within the last 3 months I've had a G.Skill 128GBT1 and an Intel X25-M.

The Intel is the better drive but the difference is nowhere near what the specs would lead you to believe.

It's your list and I couldn't care less but my actual experience has been that the G.Skill 128GB dual Micron controller drive is overall @ the same as my 80GB VR. They have about the same overall "experience" is the best way to describe it.

I haven't experienced any of the stutter and sucking you've read about and feel they're a viable option for those that aren't equipped with a bulging wallet.

Since this is a "Wish List" thread maybe they don't belong here but my real world experience says they're a real viable alternative.

That's enough of that shit.........Dream On Fellows! :D
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
you should still indicate what you are using to sort them :p

are you sure on the 4k writes? this one seems to say otherwise
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I was generally going by this
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from here <-- that is a very good read anyhow, lots of really cool stuff is discussed there.

BUT as you state, different sites get different results, so take them with a grain of salt. Benchmark numbers can vary, the controller is a controller. They are basically ordered on there in the order I added them, but I tried to keep the drives from the same brand next to each other.


Old Hippie said:
Within the last 3 months I've had a G.Skill 128GBT1 and an Intel X25-M.

The Intel is the better drive but the difference is nowhere near what the specs would lead you to believe.

It's your list and I couldn't care less but my actual experience has been that the G.Skill 128GB dual Micron controller drive is overall @ the same as my 80GB VR. They have about the same overall "experience" is the best way to describe it.

I haven't experienced any of the stutter and sucking you've read about and feel they're a viable option for those that aren't equipped with a bulging wallet.

Since this is a "Wish List" thread maybe they don't belong here but my real world experience says they're a real viable alternative.

That's enough of that shit.........Dream On Fellows! :D
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Dual Micron controllers? You mean the JMicron ones or does Micron have a controller now?
 
I have personal experience with the X25-E, the Vertex, the OCZ Solid, and the Super Talent MasterDrive PX.

The g.skill above is a dual jmicron, like the ocz apex.
 
You mean the JMicron ones or does Micron have a controller now?
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Yes JMicron, sorry Exdite.

I guess it's time to put the Bud down for the night. :D
 
extide said:
from here <-- that is a very good read anyhow, lots of really cool stuff is discussed there.

BUT as you state, different sites get different results, so take them with a grain of salt. Benchmark numbers can vary, the controller is a controller. They are basically ordered on there in the order I added them, but I tried to keep the drives from the same brand next to each other

Dual Micron controllers? You mean the JMicron ones or does Micron have a controller now?
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touche, but the update upped the Vertex to 6.x mb/s. I don't believe this is the fault of the SLC/MLC difference but possibly the controller itself, since the controller on the Vertex is a custom ARM chip, it's easily upgradeable via firmware (did I get that right?)
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
touche, but the update upped the Vertex to 6.x mb/s. I don't believe this is the fault of the SLC/MLC difference but possibly the controller itself, since the controller on the Vertex is a custom ARM chip, it's easily upgradeable via firmware (did I get that right?)
Click to expand...

Oh really, I haven't heard of that latest update. In any case I do think the Inilinx based drives are the best bang for the buck and if I were to buy one right now it would be one of those.

I wouldn't mind seeing a review with two barefoot drives, one SLC and one MLC to see how they performed.
 
Depending on what benchmark you guys are using, the state of the SSD, the numbers will differ due to different applications, and different testing methodology. You guys have to remember, don't focus on the raw numbers, but the % differences in the benchmarks.

Anand for example, tried to emulate a heavily used drive. Based on those numbers I'm "guessing" he used CrystalDiskMark 2.2, which is not a very good random performance test. Almost every other benchmark application disagrees with CDM2.2, particularly with the 4K numbers.

ATTO is pretty popular for sequential tests, and HD Tune Pro 3.5 is probably the best random read/write benchmark out there.

Sequential numbers are pretty much even between Intel/Samsung gen.2/Indilinix Barefoot controllers, but with random read/write performance the Intel takes a commanding lead.

As far as MLC vs SLC, the latter has inherently lower latency due to less possible states per cell.

And OP, I don't think there's an X18-E.
 
Just pulled the trigger on a G.Skill Falcon 128GB for $319 with free shipping at newegg. It is an Indilinx Barefoot drive, should be fun...
 
Old Hippie said:
drgnfang said:
I have personal experience with the X25-E, the Vertex, the OCZ Solid, and the Super Talent MasterDrive PX.
Click to expand...
Which do/did you prefer?
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I have the PX in my netbook and it is GREAT. Boots Win7 (beta still) in < 30 seconds. The little green progress bar only goes 1.5 times before loading the desktop. Not a lot of wasted speed due to slow chipset. I wouldn't put the Intel or Vertex in the netbook, just not worth it.

I have 3 of the 60g Solid series drives, and they are great in RAID0 but I won't expand it to 4 drives unless they go back on sale. I use them for general data storage (/home and /var).

I have 2 of the 30g Vertex drives. These were usable by themselves, even with the older firmware, but are much better in the RAID0. I use them for storing VM drives.

The Intel is hands down my favorite. After getting the PX drive for my netbook and loving it I decided that I had to get a SLC drive for my main OS/Apps drive. The Intel has not disappointed. If I had the cash I would trade the Vertex and Solid drives for 4xIntel in RAID0.
 
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