Horizon Forbidden West

Derangel said:
Ignoring rage baiting grifters makes it a fuck load easier to actually enjoy games and judge them based solely on their own merits (or lack there of) and not on whatever bullshit those morons cry about.
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That's an awful lot of swear words to say a whole lot of nothing.

Decko87 said:
I think you're both basically online way too much, I would think like 90+ percent of people don't care. I never noticed a thing until I saw this thread, and I still think Aloy is attractive I don't get the problem. Games have always had some level of politics in them but it's usually fairly minor and I don't care whatsoever because my political opinions don't matter that much. What exactly is subversive about the game, ultra wealthy powerful people can be bad? Oh no, that's never been a narrative before.
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Telling people they're online too much while making a permanent indent of your arse in your chair as you sit there online is a bit odd.

Derangel said:
Edit: And just to note: I'm not only talking about the morons that lean right. It's a problem on the other side as well. Both extremes are fucking morons.
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Yes, you are definitely an example of a high calibre intellectual on this site.
 
Shoganai said:
That's an awful lot of swear words to say a whole lot of nothing.


Telling people they're online too much while making a permanent indent of your arse in your chair as you sit there online is a bit odd.


Yes, you are definitely an example of a high calibre intellectual on this site.
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Go pound sand.
 
Derangel said:
Her face model isn't great, but she's not remotely a "potato head". Let's cut the bullshit for a second here: The entire game is filled with inconsistent face models. If Aloy's face wasn't chosen as the grift of the week from the rage baiters I rather doubt most people would have given a damn. It might have come up naturally in conversations about the game's graphics or various problems with it, but that's about it. There are a few moments where the face model particularly stands out, but that's about it. If you're not intentionally trying to focus on it, it's not really that much of a problem.
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That's your perspective, there are plenty of people who lean the other way and many of them do not fall into your ad hominem "rage baiter" category.

And as demonstrable from your mentality, the DEI grifters and apologists rely on your apathy to keep pushing the boundary until this bullshit is in everything.
 
Shoganai said:
Yeah, seriously. If you don't notice the politics and agenda-pushing in games lately when it's right there slapping you in the face, you're purposely choosing to ignore it or something is wrong with your brain. "Nuh uh!" is the best response of everyone denying this reality, because that's about as deep as their explanations go.
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Nah, its just your weird imagination that some publishers/devs (particularly Western ones) have a bizarre fetish about making females game characters ugly now.

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Blade-Runner said:
That's your perspective, there are plenty of people who lean the other way and many of them do not fall into your ad hominem "rage baiter" category.

And as demonstrable from your mentality, the DEI grifters and apologists rely on your apathy to keep pushing the boundary until this bullshit is in everything.
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The same tired nonsense basically copied word-for-word from idiots on social media. I'm not "apathetic" I just don't believe in your retarded conspiracy theory.
 
Derangel said:
The same tired nonsense basically copied word-for-word from idiots on social media. I'm not "apathetic" I just don't believe in your retarded conspiracy theory.
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It's literally not a conspiracy theory, unless you've not been online in the last 5 years. Disregarding or remaining oblivious to reality doesn't alter its existence.
 
Shoganai said:
It's literally not a conspiracy theory, unless you've not been online in the last 5 years. Disregarding or remaining oblivious to reality doesn't alter its existence.
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The only retarded conspiracy theory is the one which claims that the ongoing PC culture war in the West which has enveloped all popular forms of entertainment (TV, movies, comedy, comic books, tabletop games, sports, etc) has somehow overlooked video games. 🤣🙄
 
The culture war has definitely impacted gaming. I’ve completely drawn a blank on this, but a recently released game I was playing continuously referred to my character as ‘they’. At first I wasn’t even sure who ‘they’ were, but then I realized that ‘they’ was actually ‘me’ (my character). It was awkward. It really didn’t fit the game world… like, at all. The developer was just shoehorning it in to appease the wokesters. Hence the reason we see so many threads at the Steam forums with the title: “Is This Game Woke?” LOL.
 
I'm about 70 hours in, and her face is still not an issue. I mean she looks like some average person I'd walk by in public with neither a OMG how ugly or OMG how beautiful. She simply is.

I do need to say Ultra Hard is an absolute PITA. Many hits = DEAD. Most hits are 50%+ damage to me. And it's exactly what I would expect fighting big heavy machinery. You end up tunnel visioning every soft spot.
 
Derangel said:
Her face model isn't great, but she's not remotely a "potato head". Let's cut the bullshit for a second here: The entire game is filled with inconsistent face models. If Aloy's face wasn't chosen as the grift of the week from the rage baiters I rather doubt most people would have given a damn. It might have come up naturally in conversations about the game's graphics or various problems with it, but that's about it. There are a few moments where the face model particularly stands out, but that's about it. If you're not intentionally trying to focus on it, it's not really that much of a problem.
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It's literally the same game engine, which means the face was changed on purpose. It's not about inconsistency, it's about the fact that they took a decent model from the original game and changed it in the pseudo sequel for no reason. You see the same thing with MJ going from Spider-Man to Spider-Man 2: Same face model and game engine, yet they changed the game model for some reason. You don't put in time and money to change something for no reason.
 
Armenius said:
It's literally the same game engine, which means the face was changed on purpose. It's not about inconsistency, it's about the fact that they took a decent model from the original game and changed it in the pseudo sequel for no reason. You see the same thing with MJ going from Spider-Man to Spider-Man 2: Same face model and game engine, yet they changed the game model for some reason. You don't put in time and money to change something for no reason.
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I'm still confused how it's going to stop someone from enjoying the game? It's such a minor change. It's like making a male character less muscular in the sequel, is anyone going to complain about that?
 
Furious_Styles said:
I'm still confused how it's going to stop someone from enjoying the game? It's such a minor change. It's like making a male character less muscular in the sequel, is anyone going to complain about that?
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It's not, but the subversion is so pervasive now that it's hard for even "normies" to ignore, which is why the discourse has heated up in the past couple years. The reality is that this pot has been slowly boiling for the past 15 years, which is what allowed it to reach this point.
 
Furious_Styles said:
I'm still confused how it's going to stop someone from enjoying the game? It's such a minor change. It's like making a male character less muscular in the sequel, is anyone going to complain about that?
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When you have single men living alone in an apartment for years on end....it does matter!

Seriously I cannot believe in 2024 people are complaining about this....Actually I am not now that I think about it.
 
Armenius said:
It's literally the same game engine, which means the face was changed on purpose. It's not about inconsistency, it's about the fact that they took a decent model from the original game and changed it in the pseudo sequel for no reason. You see the same thing with MJ going from Spider-Man to Spider-Man 2: Same face model and game engine, yet they changed the game model for some reason. You don't put in time and money to change something for no reason.
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I’ve said my piece and I have nothing else to say. Don’t fucking quote me on this anymore.
 
Derangel said:
Her face model isn't great, but she's not remotely a "potato head". Let's cut the bullshit for a second here: The entire game is filled with inconsistent face models. If Aloy's face wasn't chosen as the grift of the week from the rage baiters I rather doubt most people would have given a damn. It might have come up naturally in conversations about the game's graphics or various problems with it, but that's about it.
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A lot of us noticed it before the game was released. It is always odd when a character changes design in a notable way. There are exceptions, for example May Payne's visual design changed a lot although it coincided with major technological leaps. But now that character models are detailed a lot, seeing something realistic and high detailed go to a different look stands out more.

Armenius said:
It's not about inconsistency, it's about the fact that they took a decent model from the original game and changed it in the pseudo sequel for no reason. You see the same thing with MJ going from Spider-Man to Spider-Man 2: Same face model and game engine, yet they changed the game model for some reason.
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And this is a good example. It just standouts when someone's face changes. If there is no major technological reason that may explain why they changed so much, it looks... odd.

Much like the Tomb Raider games. I didn't like how the character's look changed so drastically between the two.

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Armenius said:
It's literally the same game engine, which means the face was changed on purpose. It's not about inconsistency, it's about the fact that they took a decent model from the original game and changed it in the pseudo sequel for no reason. You see the same thing with MJ going from Spider-Man to Spider-Man 2: Same face model and game engine, yet they changed the game model for some reason. You don't put in time and money to change something for no reason.
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Please quote him on this at least one more time ;)
 
Flogger23m said:
A lot of us noticed it before the game was released. It is always odd when a character changes design in a notable way. There are exceptions, for example May Payne's visual design changed a lot although it coincided with major technological leaps. But now that character models are detailed a lot, seeing something realistic and high detailed go to a different look stands out more.



And this is a good example. It just standouts when someone's face changes. If there is no major technological reason that may explain why they changed so much, it looks... odd.

Much like the Tomb Raider games. I didn't like how the character's look changed so drastically between the two.

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And now the upcoming Lara Croft looks like a trans woman. At least in these iterations, she was still attractive.
 
Can we drop this idiotic shit? Play the game or don't, I don't give a fuck. I'd rather discuss the actual game on PC.

I'd have to go back and play HZD again, but for whatever reason Aloy feels like she controls differently in this one, and I'm not sure it's better. It feels more stiff or something, I'm not sure.
 
MavericK said:
Can we drop this idiotic shit? Play the game or don't, I don't give a fuck. I'd rather discuss the actual game on PC.

I'd have to go back and play HZD again, but for whatever reason Aloy feels like she controls differently in this one, and I'm not sure it's better. It feels more stiff or something, I'm not sure.
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The game plays more clumsily. She gets thrown around a whole lot. Even when you dodge sometimes she takes too long to get up. Even basic human NPCs can often charge, you dodge, and then they can charge again and hit you before your dodge animation completes. On normal it isn't a hard game by any stretch, but the combat isn't quite as good.

It isn't a bad game but the things it did good weren't quite as good as the first (story, combat, world building) and the things that were annoying (resource gathering) were more of an annoyance. Aloy's swollen face is just one of a number of drawbacks.

I'll play the next game but I hope they decide to end it otherwise it will become another Assassin's Creed type situation.
 
MavericK said:
Can we drop this idiotic shit? Play the game or don't, I don't give a fuck. I'd rather discuss the actual game on PC.

I'd have to go back and play HZD again, but for whatever reason Aloy feels like she controls differently in this one, and I'm not sure it's better. It feels more stiff or something, I'm not sure.
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Definitely worse. I haven't bothered to look into the staff of both games, but a lot of the gameplay changes feel like something that could happen when there are differences in team leaders between projects. People coming on, wanting to make changes and having a different vision. I know that between ZD and FW, Hermen Hulst left GG and be the president of Playstation Studios but I don't know if he really had any direct involvement with the game outside of typical studio head stuff.
 
Armenius said:
It's literally the same game engine, which means the face was changed on purpose.
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And the apologists, shills and grifters who defend this will unironically label anyone who notices as an incel loser who has never seen a woman in real life before despite the fact that the models are based on real woman who look far more attractive than their in-game counterparts 🙄
 
GoldenTiger said:
It looks completely out of place on her body it's an obese, ugly woman's head while the old one and the rest of her are not. Why do you think they changed it?
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Maybe new team leads or designers in the modeling department? Maybe they felt they needed a new character model to take advantage of the improved graphics. Perhaps the animation changes caused them to need to change models? I'd have to double check, but I feel like multiple returning characters got new models. At least the ones that are core parts of the story. I've speculated previously that it almost seems like they were trying to make her look more mature or weathered to account for her journey in ZD or to make he seem more "realistic" and messed it up.

While typing this, I was doing a little research and I found that for both games they used a company called Karakter as an outsourcing partner. It looks like the company provided character designers for both games. However, there is only one person listed as a character designer for FW (he also worked on ZD) while there are multiple for ZD. That said, based on Karakter's website, it seems like their focus for FW was on costume design, environment design, and helping develop the look of the new tribes. So, no idea if it's a factor at all or just a bit of useless trivia.
 
Derangel said:
Maybe new team leads or designers in the modeling department? Maybe they felt they needed a new character model to take advantage of the improved graphics. Perhaps the animation changes caused them to need to change models? I'd have to double check, but I feel like multiple returning characters got new models. At least the ones that are core parts of the story. I've speculated previously that it almost seems like they were trying to make her look more mature or weathered to account for her journey in ZD or to make he seem more "realistic" and messed it up.

While typing this, I was doing a little research and I found that for both games they used a company called Karakter as an outsourcing partner. It looks like the company provided character designers for both games. However, there is only one person listed as a character designer for FW (he also worked on ZD) while there are multiple for ZD. That said, based on Karakter's website, it seems like their focus for FW was on costume design, environment design, and helping develop the look of the new tribes. So, no idea if it's a factor at all or just a bit of useless trivia.
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Part in bold would make sense, but something was lost in the re-creation because her face is shaped quite differently. It isn't as drastic as the changes with Lara Croft I posted earlier, but it is noticeable. It isn't technological, the difference is artistic. There isn't any real technological reason for her face design to change. I think the main issue is it just looks odd. In some scenes it looks fine, in others it looks swollen or chubby. Which doesn't quite fit the rest of her body. It isn't the worst character design ever but it does look odd in ways its predecessor doesn't.
 
Flogger23m said:
Part in bold would make sense, but something was lost in the re-creation because her face is shaped quite differently. It isn't as drastic as the changes with Lara Croft I posted earlier, but it is noticeable. It isn't technological, the difference is artistic. There isn't any real technological reason for her face design to change. I think the main issue is it just looks odd. In some scenes it looks fine, in others it looks swollen or chubby. Which doesn't quite fit the rest of her body. It isn't the worst character design ever but it does look odd in ways its predecessor doesn't.
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Yeah. I'm not going to try and defend the model itself. It's not great and it is incredibly inconsistent. I will say, at least it's not as in your face noticeable at all times like the horrendous lip-sync issue with the previous game.
 
Derangel said:
Yeah. I'm not going to try and defend the model itself. It's not great and it is incredibly inconsistent. I will say, at least it's not as in your face noticeable at all times like the horrendous lip-sync issue with the previous game.
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Yeah, the mouth and audio was a bit disturbing at times.
 
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